Dr. Mark Gordon - Jay Campbell - Drew Crowden
Whether you first met Dr. Crisler on the Mind & Muscle bodybuilding forum back in 2000 or at an anti-aging convention where he may have been a keynote speaker, talking to him made you immediately feel like he was a friend. And that's because he was.
Dr. Crisler's contribution to the progressive message of male hormone replacement therapy is a legacy that will carry on for decades to come. He will not only be missed but he leaves a vacuum that will not be filled by anyone in the space.
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. This is a very sad show we had a different show planned for today, but we have changed scheduled because we lost a man who was a friend. And he was a great contributor to the category of male hormone replacement therapy and that's dr. John Chrysler.
And so we have some people on Today Show that knew him the best and myself. Obviously. I'll tell some of my own stories [00:01:00] throughout the trip to pay homage. And quite frankly, you know, we talked about this all the time on the show it you know, the show is dedicated to Health Fitness and Longevity, but one of the things that impairs longevity isn't senescent cells and it isn't necessarily vitamin deficiency.
But sometimes it's just deficiency of something that your spirit needs and you're not getting it and we're going to talk more about that. So my first guess I'm going to bring it right on is an old. And the mind and that meat and I mean that both figuratively and and and and and actually dr. Mark Gordon and I owe a lot to dr.
Mark Gordon in the early years of the show. He taught me a lot that I carried forth. I feel like he is kind of a mentor of mine and he does amazing things for people today. He's turned his talents to helping people traumatic brain injuries changing lives of military people NFL football players is literally giving them their lives.
[00:02:00] And I met John Crisler through. Dr. Gordon because I want to say this with all your ability and to people that have been involved with Chrysalis life, but you were really a mentor to him to because you brought him into the anti-aging fold and you knew him very well you guys travel together you hung out together, you lectured a different events together.
How long did you know? Dr. Chrysler? Oh jeez. Thank you. For doing this car. Hope somebody does it for me someday. Well, I'll have to get a radio show like how have to come back successful ones to start with two. Yeah, I've known Jon Jon and I met way back when at one of the organization's for anti-aging medicine and you know, the Kindred was there as you know, you found it as many of the people [00:03:00] that will be on the show and people listening who.
Really knew John he had a kindred spirit very easy to get along with he loved everybody, you know, he was a veteran also and which had another side to it, but John was dynamic in the area of all things male his. His website where he helped to illustrate and to educate people who are out there randomly doing things with steroids anabolic steroids or neurohormones hormones for the body to help to try and direct them with science.
Right basing everything that he did on really good science. And when we met I liked his focus in the testosterone in what I was doing with the first book Interventional Endocrinology had a chapter on testosterone and I brought him in to you know, share his experience and also the science that he had and added somewhat to what I had already written [00:04:00] about.
And he would give these phenomenal lectures and we ended up in 2010 opening up Mexico with an organization. He Ron Rothenberg. Let's see was Sankey to Patty and myself and also Neil Rozier was part of it and we were also a team starting in 2007 lecturing doing the lecture circuit the five of us were.
Gather we would give John will give phenomenal lectures on testosterone. I did my growth hormone thing and Sangeeta would do her female hormones and rouget would do some of the other hormones the estrogens and and Ron Rothenberg. So it was a very tight-knit team and John was very dynamic in the testosterone and you know in 2006.
I started working in Southeast Asian, Thailand and shearing all my litter. [00:05:00] With him and preparing him for coming in to you know, participate and take over from me in Thailand. Unfortunately because of life situations with him. He never had an opportunity to do that, but we continued, you know participating together when my third book came out on traumatic brain injury participated with that which time I mean in all the time that I've known him, I never knew that he was a veteran and I never know that either isn't it for he never talked about that?
Yeah, he never did but because he was a veteran. You know, he I introduced him to my partner and Jamar the Green Beret and you know, we were preparing him. In fact right now for taking a piece of the lecture circuit that I do with testosterone and some of the other aspects and then going to our projects in Southeast Asia, but unfortunately will take him with us every day in spirit.
It's really it really is sad. I know that I know that you were shocked by this and I. I was I was [00:06:00] speechless you know, I literally so someone message me who is a patient of his and passed on the email that they sent out to all the patients and I was shocked I texted him back. Is this a joke? You know, is this like a cruise like somebody playing a cruel joke is this like a joke because you know, there were people that look you can't you can't rise to any level of success without having haters.
In fact Anthony Roberts told me when I had my first hater back in 2000 and and and six he said well you've officially arrived now once you have a hater you're somebody. And so I thought it was a joke because right at Lisa and I we were just in in Michigan and we spent time with John and his girlfriend.
We spent a couple days with them and and you know something you said before is something I actually wrote in today's show right up. Yo to meet John Chrysler was to be a friend of John Chrysler's because John was this bigger-than-life personality. He's gregarious. He was [00:07:00] friendly he made you feel very connected to him just upon meeting him and and I think you know everybody you talk to says like I've talked to a lot of people for today's show and everybody was like well, I was a good friend of his.
Well, I was a good friend of his I was a good friend of his, you know, it's like most of these people were just patients of his but he felt everybody who met him felt that they were a good friend of his and that's a very unique quality in today's day and age, you know, oops absolutely John had style.
I mean not only the way he dressed but the way he comported himself and interact with people and that's what gave people that warmth and that comfort in dealing with this quote unquote doctor which you know, Family doctors are very standoffish. But you know a lot of us came out of the same Cut From the Same Cloth where it was about.
Opening up allowing the patient's open up and you had to be human. So we had a humanistic approach and John [00:08:00] was very humanistic in how he dealt with life. And I think that was probably one of the major stressors is that he let too many of the wrong people in that, you know added significant stress to his life.
So, Can you tell me anything you guys spent a lot of time together at the different events? And I remember one year running after the two of you in Las Vegas and you guys have been out like partying all night long, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah, you know a lot of people don't think of guys like you, you know, Mark.
I love you. You know, we don't spend a lot of time together. I'm really sad that you're on the show today what you should be on the show more and it has to be for this. But you know, you are you you know, you have a rock and roll background. You became This brilliant scientist, but you have a rock and roll background you Party Like a Rockstar don't.
No, I don't party like a lot of rock star, but when I'm in the company of people like John [00:09:00] and just recently I won't stay his name with just keep people you sit down and with a nice bottle of Scotch John, you know came to the house and spent a couple of days at my house in Los Angeles and at that time we had cats and dogs and whatever and there was one cat this wonderful cat.
Only one person that the cat attack it was John. It's the jump that his foot and caught his foot. So we ended up, you know sitting back with a bottle of 21 year old scotch and you know, just sitting talking about the life and love and experiences and hormones. And he was very Dynamic he could shift from area to area to area very easily and and communicate and it was a reader and that's what helped him and if I was responsible for anything in anyone that I come in contact with whether or not it's a fellow.
It's a colleague or a patient. It's to inspire them to read above and beyond their. [00:10:00] Limitations where they think they're only capable and John would read a lot and I'd send them stuff when we were in Mexico. I think it was dr. Rothenberg John and I were sitting in my room and we're chit-chatting with the leader of wonderful tequila.
And when we got finished with that bottle of tequila, we went down to the bar in the hotel and started with another one then went out and had some great for solely but you know, it was always not just drinking to get inebriated. It but it was you know sitting there in the social event and you know you tend to drink.
Yeah, I was those damn that was like a Carlos casteneda type of thing. You know what I mean? It's bonds people it bonds people. Well, well, I think there was more than just alcohol deposit us, you know, and it just it's a great it's a great role loss, you know, so you said you said you talked about love and I talked about love a lot with what dr.
Crystal over the years, you know, I went and I went. Very [00:11:00] very very bad divorce and John went through one two, and one of the things that he and I shared was that through the family court system. Both of us were were marred. Our our our reputations were marred in the family court system de facto just by being in there and having to defend yourself.
Unreal untrue charges and celebrate one time. You know, he we were talking about this and he he he we were talking and he gave me the feeling that. He wanted a deeper connection with a woman that he was able then he was able to achieve at that point in his life. And I kind of feel like at that time when I spoke to him that he felt he felt like he missed out on something in his life when it came to love.
Did he ever did he ever make you feel that way or say anything like that, too? What did usually share with me is [00:12:00] the the court cases have the end the deprecation and the lies and the you know, the yes about the law about the legal system and about how it is. So manipulated by people who are well at doing manipulations, and obviously we're talking about his last.
His last case right marriage, right? And it was just horrible. Yes. He actually called me up one day and he goes Carl I want to do a show about what I just went through. I want to talk about it. I'm actually writing a book. I said John, how do I fit that into Health Fitness and Longevity and he said well, you know guys need to know that this is going on.
I said, no I know. But that I can't do that that's in the topic. I could cover on the show. Yeah, but it is proactive, you know, it is in preparation of proactive thing. I mean in science in the in the hormonal world, we talked about proactive don't wait until the levels of [00:13:00] whatever the hormone is gets to the critical level start intervening, you know proactively and I think what he was talking about is, you know.
How to prepare us for hopefully an unlikely situation called divorce but you know to be prepared when that happens in to understand what to expect and how you'll be dragged through the coals and over shards of glass, you know, and just the emotionality and how to deal with the emotionality of it.
But you know, those were those were conversations that we we didn't have too often because there were much better. To talk about the life. Yeah, he needed to have the camaraderie of support between his mail all things male to help support and that's what's being missed out. There is that we run into situations our life.
We meaning individuals whether male or female we want run into situations [00:14:00] where. It would help us to turn to a Brethren and to share with them about what's going on to get some support. Not that you're less capable but to get someone else's per view or perspective on things so that you can balance it out with the way that one might be thinking you might be thinking and I don't think we do enough and I know in the in the world of traumatic brain injury in the military that I see a lot of times the.
Negative outcomes or do because their pride and they won't talk to anybody. They won't you know seek help or they won't seek a Brethren to communicate with the share their experience to get some feedback. And this is you know, this is a problem that permeates all walks of life and we have to open up we have to be proactive and you know have good people to work with and that's that's the issue.
How do you know a person's you know? [00:15:00] John exuded it, you know you knew John was a good person. But job but John kept a lot of it into and I think you know, I so the audience probably doesn't know this many people don't know this but John so everybody's assuming John died of a heart attack because he had a heart attack and resented a couple years ago.
And so we found 16. Yeah, and so everybody's like, well, he must have had another heart attack. But the reality is that the John took his own life and we're going to talk more about that with people who are actually aware of exactly what happened, but John took his own life, and I was just talking to Alicia this morning and she said, What makes a person feel that that is the only option left and you know, and I think of myself as hyper optimistic, I think that if I knew I was going to die Thursday, I would think well, you know what Wednesday I still may hit the lottery and then I can leave on a good note.
No, like I'm not an idiot. I'm that idiot. You know that down the aisle. What do you think? Well, you know, what I do is neuroendocrinology. So I deal with the brain [00:16:00] and hormones and I see this quite frequently the majority of the military that I see the average suicide attempts are for in there on a, you know, nine different medications than still suicidal and there's.
System in the brain which you know, we'd like to think that it's at our Command we can decide to do it or not do it we can decide to you know, pick up a cup of coffee or not with the emotionality. There are so many chemicals that regulate our ability to make the right decision. And when those hormones are off you lose that ability and this is you know, one of the things that you know, John I spoke about and it was about when you use testosterone.
Using 2 stars from by itself will shut off 11 brain hormones and a lot of times, you know, I used we used to get patients coming to us who are on testosterone four to six months later. They say, you know doc at the beginning of treatment. I felt really good, but now I don't feel as well [00:17:00] and that's because the use of testosterone shuts off another hormone luteinizing hormone that converts testosterone to pregnenolone and if that doesn't happen you lose these 11 regulatory hormones that deal with depression.
And with depression and with anxiety not to turn this own educational opportunity, but what are those 11 hormones so that I can pay more attention to them because you know, I've been on HIV for a long time. So right you have to follow the Cascade from cholesterol to pregnenolone and then pregnenolone down to Progesterone Al pregnenolone to cortisol.
And on the other side DHEA a of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone estradiol Azrael. You know the entire Cascades you interrupt. Yeah. Yeah, I get you. Okay, I'm good. I'm covered. I'm covered. I thought there was something that I didn't know about. I was like, oh Mark's gonna teach me again. Now we are amending with those so that's good.
Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good. You're supplementing with him and anybody female or [00:18:00] male on estrogen or testosterone you need to add the pregnenolone progesterone. It's in the you know, the feedback loop so it influences the mental ability and when we start looking at things like Alzheimer's disease.
They're deficient in all these hormones in the frontal lobe and that's why they can't make decisions. Okay, a low pregnenolone UCLA's on their ninth or tenth year of research on the byproduct of pregnenolone, which pregnenolone progesterone to a low pregnant alone, which is neuroprotective and free radical Scavenging and it helps with depression.
There are. Almost 7,000 articles talking about this on Google Scholar if you put anxiety Plus pregnenolone in it anyway, so, you know, this is one of the topics that John and I would go back and forth on and you know, most people were resistant to it because they thought the Panacea the cure-all is testosterone, but it is.
[00:19:00] But you know what with that being said, I mean, I actually I'm going to stop playing some of John's old shows I have about ten shows that I've done with John one of them was on pregnant alone. He was a proponent of using pregnant alone. So I kind of feel like John probably was covered on all of these things.
So, I mean am I wrong thinking that he was probably taking some of these Downstream metabolites, you know, the probabilities who's smart guy was that he was on it, but there's a lot more that learning has her going through, you know from his military service, you know, was there chronic inflammation which they've now found lasting 17 plus years that destroys the neuro chemistry of the brain.
The ability to convert things so you might be taking in but not able to convert it because you've got this chronic inflammation. So, you know, that's the area [00:20:00] that we work on inflammation in neuro steroids the brain hormones. So what do you want? What do you want people to know about John? I know you have patients to see and you were gracious enough to actually start working earlier today to do the show to pay homage to tonight Chris.
What do you want people to know about John? Well the positive that John offered to each and every one of us is about openness friendship communication sharing. To a degree because he didn't share what was going on with them from positive. It was a very smart man. He read he did things. We need to read.
We need to learn we need to keep on pushing the envelope on the other side, obviously because of what transpired we need to learn how to be more open. How do not stand on our own two feet. But when we need a third leg or fourth leg to go and reach out to extend the hand and ask someone [00:21:00] for help or.
Comfort. Bert nope, I don't know what is triggers were I don't know what precipitated because you know, I talked to him in November he and I had been dialoguing back and forth because of you know, working together again, and he was always positive, you know and his close buddies out there in the Ohio as you'll hear about they spoke three times a week, right?
It was no sign of anything going on and that's how it could pop up. You know, he's suppress it and then all of a sudden it pops up and there's no return. Very very slow. Very sad. Yeah. Well, so he'll be missed but we'll all he'll be missed physically but in spirit and you know in spirit will all be carrying a piece of those of us who really can call ourselves his friend and many of us were out there that were friends.
Thanks for being here today mark. [00:22:00] Yeah, it's a tough State. Anyway, thank you Carl. I appreciate what you're doing, and John's memory will all keep the fire burning. We'll talk soon. We'll talk soon. Take care. Take care. Bye bye. We're going to take one quick commercial break and when we come back, we're going to be joined by Jay Campbell and he's got some interesting perspectives.
He's been working with John Chrysler more recently with the T OT Revolution project. But also he actually had some bumps in the road with John he's going to clear that up because there's some people that message me this morning about Jay and John and he has folded me emails between he and John and I think that his.
Detectives are going to be very very good. So stay tuned right back with more supremum radio. we have. Jay Campbell on the phone with how you doing, Jay up. Sorry. Jay, I had your mic [00:23:00] muted you there. I'm here. How are you? Wonderful. Wonderful. We tried to do this on Zoom. But I am I am technologically an Adept at zoom and trying to get it all done during the two-and-a-half minute break is just a little difficult for my brain.
But anyway, we have Jay Campbell on with us because he has a more recent but very close relationship with John Chrysler and and some of you who sent me messages today and I want to address that right up front real quick saying, why would you have J Campbell on your show? He's he's had altercations with John on Facebook and two of you sent me actual threads and then J sent me threads and emails and other things where he showed that the he and John had made peace.
So just real quick. Give give everybody to read his digest version of would take play took place so that we can move forward and and pay homage to John Chris. Yeah, and first of all, thank you for having me on the show today. We're all here is sad [00:24:00] state of mourning. As you know, John was a true legend in a Pioneer.
And as I said on my show yesterday without John Krueger, there is no G Campbell that's very very truthfully transparent as authentic as I can be, you know, John position me and was very very supportive of my work and very open to me as a non-medical Personnel getting into this realm like I did five years ago.
So I got out my I believe me. This is a very tragic loss for me and but the to to your point John was obviously a literally, you know, like literally I haven't had a word I would describe it like an anchor to the show the Tod doctors Roundtable, which is will be a year in March of this year.
Actually, February February of next year and about middle of October. Last year, he got into a disagreement with a couple of the doctors on the show about estrogen management. And you know, the DNA give you a high-level summary John had been at odds with dr. Neil rouget for a long [00:25:00] time at various medical conferences about managing estrogen and men and took know just to summarize from there.
He always was very contentious. About defending his use of AI to Rehabilitation taking her medications versus you know, Neil Russia a doctor Russia a stance that white look walking estrogen is harmful. Here's the evidence. So with that said a couple of doctors and him got into it on the show and then John unfortunately decided that he was going to have his pound of Flesh so to speak and he went to social media forums and I don't pay attention to any of those calls, you know, like you I just you know, you got to do what you do.
It got back to me like three weeks later that he had written some really profane Akio challenging people personal attacks blah blah blah on Excel mail. And also I think Facebook and then I never saw them other than what people sent me screenshots and stuff and I just delete that kind of stuff but the doctors at that point once they all found out that what John was doing they all unanimously.
Voted John off of the show now again as the show's organizer and [00:26:00] the guy the crafted and created the whole thing. It was never ever my intention to remove John and all my messaging to John on Facebook and social media and through tax and him and I stayed in close contact through texting and also through personal messaging on Facebook.
We've always been friends. There's no antagonism John fully respected. The John was very close to my wife. He talked to her all the time. They talked a lot about animals and dogs and John was a very very huge hearted man. He really really was and when the doctors decided to remove him, you know, I sent him an email.
I said John this is not my decision. This is a unanimous decision. The doctors themselves they feel at this point based on your behavior. It's better to Coral Cove put you in timeout for a while, but don't worry, you know when the new year starts with everything will come back and that's exactly what happened.
And then you know, what happened from Facebook, you know, you saw that you read some of that this morning. There was a huge thread on Facebook. From the videos that I did the podcast I did with [00:27:00] you'll Rozier which are all very three profound videos. He shared about all the information with estrogen and why blocking yesterday's harmful and John got into it not with me, but with a bunch of people into threat again as John is very known to do in social media.
He would get into arguments with people and I kind of let them go and kill Nelson Montana who hates John was personally attacked him. I deleted all of these messages. And then it got to where he was also disagreement with some other people. I can't you know, I've had in the neighborhood they were and it got to the point where he just was never at that point take ownership for what happened with all the other stuff.
And so I eventually left him a post and I said John, you know, I fully respect you. Without you there is no me again. Same things and you you deserve to know the maximum credibility and stuff like that. But you got to apologize you did what you did was wrong. And you know, some people said dude, you know that takes balls to stand up to prison like that, you know, very few people in the medical community would ever do that.
And again, you know, this fall John was a man's man. He's a true [00:28:00] alpha male and he was that type of guy who was difficult if you're going to take him on you need to stand up with him. But anyway, I said what I said, I never challenged him personally. I just said dude. All you have to do is apologize to dr.
Nichols and and and this will be over and honestly, literally I would say they had a two days might have been three days. He personally called dr. Keith Nichols apologize to him if they're proud to have a long conversation Keith has all these messages say then to from Facebook that they spoke after he also from what I understand.
I can't confirm this but he said an email to dr. Neil ruzie apologizing and saying look, you know, I. I'm off my a I myself. I'm listening to you. Now. It took a while. I appreciate if you understand that. I am a thoughtful and heartfelt in my apology. And then that was that and you know, we all decided at that point I want to say this is about two weeks ago that we were going to bring John back on the show and you know, there was no no tissues John and I the last communication that John and I have on Facebook was on the 5th and I can look [00:29:00] it up if you do the 5th or 6th of January.
He said to me he said Jay. I hope you and Monica and the family had an amazing Christmas. I wish you an incredibly prosperous New Year, and you know, it's about the great things, you know, and again the time when I saw I was kind of like thanks John and I don't check Facebook very often. So I think I got back to him literally like a day later and I wrote him back and I said John, thank you so much.
My love you. I hope you're doing well. I hope you have an awesome holiday. And then that was the last time that he wrote me back like, you know, just very cordially small and said, yep. Everything's great. That was the last communication I have and then you know as I told you this morning to speaking about the air as I was making the rounds last night and you know, everybody was devastated and I was talking to his first personal friends.
I spoke to Nelson Vogel by text message. I have a say I spoke to Gene Divine personally on the phone is one of John's closest friends and we are all going over in our head or last communication with them and all the guys as we started talking amongst each other realize. It made sense that John was actually going [00:30:00] around making peace with everyone and as if you knew John and I know you do call it.
Anyone who knew John John was not that tight. He would always stand his line standing the ground. He was not a kind of guy who's going to go back and say hey, I was wrong. I apologize and so for him to change that fast it was first off. It was amazing, right because spiritually it's like holy shit.
John Travelers figured out the meaning of being here. He doesn't want enemies. He wants to be friends with everybody. All talking last night and just kind of making some positions amongst each other. We're like, holy shit. He was making his mouthpiece, you know, and it's interesting that you say that because it's so what if in fact that assumption is correct, then he must have been contemplating.
You know, you don't just wake up one morning and say I think I'm going to take my own life. You you got to be in a desperate place for a very very long time where you feel. Like that's literally the only option is that option. I was just talking with dr. Mark Gordon who is known John for [00:31:00] decades and they travel together and they spoke at anti-aging meetings.
And actually Mark took John under his wing and brought him into the whole a4m and then a MMG later on world. And actually Mark just said he was just talking to John about having him start to lecture on the TBI circuit about testosterone. Just recently like like in the past couple months. And so John had all these things like still in play.
He was still respected as I'm going to Yes, it doesn't make sense. I can tell you that. I'm glad Mark texted me this morning and I haven't had a chance to get back to him because you know so many people but. Yes, every person I spoke to who's been recent contact with a Doctor Robert coming on our was talking to him on Friday and and him and I were doing a video on Friday morning and John was texting and he was like, hey John thanks to me.
Let's get through this and yeah, no problem. Yeah, he called him back and I text him later that day. I said, how's he doing? He's nobody who was in close [00:32:00] contact with them had any idea and again, you know, I can share this with you his girlfriend. So I don't know personally, but my wife has had some communication with her indirectly through Facebook and John again confiding in the my wife all the time.
It seems like they were in a really good part of the relationship. I know that when they first started out they had a little turbulence, but then again who doesn't and you know, the last report that I got in the last literally like three or four days she's totally devastated and you know had no way to know so I think you're right.
I think that this is something that he just is he as he could bite it in my wife many times. He felt that he. He didn't have love in his life. Like he wanted him that his greatest regret was that he never met someone and experiencing an amazing loving relationship and had children and stuff like that.
So I have a feeling that John had kind of like a wearing hole in his heart right metaphorically. And you know, I mean Carl, we don't know why people kill themselves depression and all these things are [00:33:00] very difficult to understand. Obviously. It's like the genic illness is just impossible, but I have a feeling it's just my overriding feeling that.
I just felt at the end before he did this that he figured things out, you know, and he truly changed and said, I'm sorry, you know to anybody that he felt that he Wong's I mean, let's be honest, you know, this is something that hasn't been talked about. I'll maybe the first to bring this up and then John put himself on the line by going out and saying look, I'm changing my stance on the ice because call is you know, and all that was a major blow in a lot of ways in the obviously Palace yard amazing respect to John to do that.
Think of all the patients that were on a eyes, right so you can only imagine that a lot of those guys probably, you know came out. Well, okay. So let's go all the way to the way I want to stop there for a second. I want to I want to go tangentially from this. So for those who don't know what a eyes are aromatase Inhibitors are standard.
[00:34:00] Prescribed drug that most HRT clinics prescribed for them and they give them testosterone they automatically give him an a I I have been vocally opposed to a eyes for over a decade because of estrogen and Men is neuroprotective men develop things like Parkinson's disease 5 to 10 times more frequently than women until women go through menopause.
I've never used an AI. Even when I was when I was using Reckless doses of androgens, I never used an AI because I wanted my estrogen to be higher because I wanted to help us estrogen is Li politically know that from research that's been done on men that Ashton actually improves fat loss. Oh blah blah.
So but but John was part of the part of the group that said a you know, when you give it a guy testosterone, you got to give him a eyes and so he changed his stance. He did it in the end here in the ending. Yeah, amazing. Yes, absolutely amazing and call, you know, I want to give you bad credit because even I [00:35:00] did not understand that the way that you understood that I mean, obviously there were people out there the literature as you said is always saying that.
Estrogen levels are neuroprotective their vascular protected. There's so many things they do it. Again. We know that the importance of estrogen in the protective effects actually comes from the aromatization testosterone and estrogen I don't want to talk about that but it's weird that John and so many other doctors, you know, who came again in John being the Pioneer that he was an amazing man.
He was I don't want to talk about that before we end this conversation about his legacy because again, he's truly a Pioneer, but he that what he just did. Amazing glass balls, right? Okay, because again he has I would say and argue that yes thousands of patients both current and past all over the world.
You know, he had them on specific protocols. And again, it's it just takes a really strong powerful man to say that but I brought that up because if you invert it and you think okay [00:36:00] John thank you for doing that as me and you working on it and and obviously you're supporting the evidence in the science.
But what about all the patients who would be emotionally anticipate personally to soften him because they would then come at him and say dude. You had me on and I all the time so I I have a feeling that a lot of that might have come on him too. And so that may have caused him, you know, maybe a little bit more emotional stress.
I definitely know that he was stressed. This is very open. He was very open about this. He was stressed about not being on the round table anymore and you know, so I know that that bothered him and then I had a feeling I was told yesterday. I didn't know this but I was told yesterday that he was also banned from a couple of the social media sites.
So I have a feeling if you know John would turn to that a lot of times to for support and you know, because he had so many fans around the world and he was so well run. Well known and recognized. I have a feeling that that might have led to a little bit of him being. Yeah, but it's got it's got to be it's got to be more than that.
So so I've known John for a long time. I actually met him on the mind and muscle [00:37:00] bodybuilding form in the year 2000 when he was John was the. Physician to truly spend time with the people who using anabolic steroids to Ball but commune to learn and to share information and that so that's where I met him and I think and I've spent a lot of time on the phone with him when I was going through my divorce.
Shortly thereafter, he went through a divorce. He and I shared a lot of the same stories about the family court system and being a man and I I have a different show for years. I've always said suicide is a passive aggressive move you commit suicide to hurt other people, but in John's case, I don't think that was it.
And being and here are the same exact age. We're just a few months apart. Okay, he was born in 1958. I'm born in 1958 [00:38:00] and I have come to a point in my life where you and for lack of better terms. You just find that you're just really tired like man. I am so effing tired of fighting this fight. And and and you feel that looking see this is the thing that saves me because I've been standing at the abyss numerous times in my life, but I've never been I've never let myself fall in right and but but but if you don't if you feel that way like man, I am so tired and you don't have something to hang Hope on that tomorrow will make it different you I can see checking out not to hurt other.
But just selfishly because like, you know what I got nothing left to contribute here. I'm just done I don't want to do this anymore. I think that's a profound point. You know, when I spoke to my wife and we found out about this yesterday, you know, Monica just instantly and my wife is a [00:39:00] very spiritual person, but she she instantly had the lightbulb moment and she's like, you know Dre.
God did so much good for this plan and he did so much help for so many men who were so up behind and you know, I wanted to give you this quote Gene to buying when I talked to him on the phone last night. He said I want everyone if you can do a good job, Jay and extending this and his legacy. I want everyone to remember the Jon was the doctor and the man who left No, Man Behind and is exactly who he was but you know, my wife said to me, she's like Jay what if his message and his mission was.
To do what he did and then he found out like, you know about the AI stuff and then he took ownership or and then exactly what you just said Carl he decided that that was checkout time that he had done enough. I mean, you're right. He sold might have been tired. I don't know but it's interesting that you bring that up.
John John didn't have trouble changing his position in most cases that I've found so I did a show so Jason Lulu who's a listener of mine [00:40:00] message me about six months ago. And said, he was listening to an old episode of superhuman radio with John on it and I think we were talking about pregnenolone on that show and this was around 2010.
No, 2012. It was 2012 and I told John that I was experimenting with Sub-Q testosterone injections because I was just tired of sticking myself in the quads the shoulders and the hips. I mean, I've got so much scar tissue in me that if they if they looked at my body, they would think that you know, well, you must have got shot with a 9-millimeter there, right?
So it's like yeah, and so. And at that time I have it on audio. He said, you know, I think that's a bad idea. You're going to have a higher rate of aromatization and also putting oil in with the fat as a bad idea. It's going to cause problems Bubba, but then he turned around a few years later and he embraced he was like well, wait a minute.
This is so I John in my humble opinion. John is always been [00:41:00] somebody that could change directions, but I think that we all share this next. Statement everybody shares this you can change directions when you feel like it's your decision to change directions. But you five you a much harder time changing directions when you feel like you're being forced to change directors.
That's human nature. So John coming to his own decision about Sub-Q. Was easy but John coming to his own decision about a I was harder because he had this community of people going. No no a eyes are no good. No, no, no and so it's like it's like the Aikido of life. You know how Aikido works I can use some he was caught in the Ikea Kido of life.
He was resisting because people were telling him he had to right. Right, right and it's funny Gia point at the exact by the way. That's a hundred thousand percent. His last conference. Aang what he spoke which was in Tucson. And unfortunately, I was unable to make it because I have an aunt dying of cancer and I at the last second [00:42:00] decided to go pay my final respects.
And so I didn't go but you know, we all spoke on estrogen and John challenged him and John has been known to challenge meal for close to a decade you ask any of the doctors, you know, Mark would say that you know, Rob was it I all the guys in the AMG circuit knew that and they only spent you know, John was never like unprofessional with Neil.
That was like at that point where no was like John it's been going on forever. Here's the evidence. Where's your evidence? And it would be you know, John would always be back. I don't need evidence. I have my patients follow block. So I feel like he was probably a lot closer again to getting to that point like he said and he definitely would have done yet.
Himself, if the circumstances were and it's like, you know some of the messages that I have from him and dr. Nichols on a dr. Nichols is a very kind and he sent me them screenshots and he wants me to write a blog and he wants to contribute he wants to get everybody who wants to contribute to the we can write like an amazing celebratory, [00:43:00] you know statement about John's light.
He thinks that John truly did know that the evidence was the other way, but that because Neil. You know didn't look as healthy as he needed to be and you're John anticipated video at high estrogen and all these other things that he just was one of those things where he just kind of as in his cognitive dissonance chair so to speak and so I was going to do things my way but I think John because we both know call John was a brilliant doctor.
He was brilliant guy very very smart. If you got into a deep, you know analytical or Quantum tight conversation with it. He could carry on any level he was a brilliant guy. I just feel like he just know he was very stuck in his ways. He was obviously a very legendary testosterone optimization Theory doctor and he felt like you know where I have thousands of patients and I do it and they're all happy and successful.
So this is the way it's going to be and it just at this point. He's decided like he said that you know through the Aikido of life. He decided that this is the right way to go. So who knows what he was thinking at the end. Like you said [00:44:00] that depression is a weird thing, but I just know that we all lost an amazing man.
And you know, I can assure you that his legacy will carry on. And it's interesting because one of the things that dr. Gordon pointed out is when you're on testosterone therapy you have you have a shutdown of a Cascade of. Of metabolites from the production of other hormones through luteinizing hormone and you know, and he said, you know, you just don't know what's happening in the brain.
Sometimes it's not a matter of making a decision. Sometimes you just you just don't see anything else. But what you're thinking is the answer so it's very very sad to me. It really is it's horrible. So for the for the audience, that doesn't know I said John took his own life. But you have some more details about this because you've been communicating with people at the office, right?
Yes, not actually. Well, you have to know I indirectly see my wife communicated with his PR person Melissa. Okay, but what what what but I have communicated directly with someone who's [00:45:00] communicating directly with his girlfriend. In fact, I was just talking to him right before you and I jumped on the show and she did find him.
She found him he I guess again, this is paraphrase and told me she found him. He had hung himself in his garage. It is home. And I don't think I mean again, I don't know how much the family you know is going to release and I asked this morning if they were going to release that and they told me that yes and again in direct and that's all that's all we wanted.
Yeah, but so so he was obviously in a very desperate place and then and then interesting enough tangentially. Dr. Mark Gordon just shared with me that another great HRT doctor just took his own life this past week. Also, so I don't know what that's about and we really didn't talk about it. But we've actually lost two people within the space from what I understand.
Well, so, what do you want people to know? About dr. Chrysler with just from your dealings and he was very generous with you. You're right T OT really [00:46:00] like in other for the T OT project to to be something you had to have some big heavy hitting doctors on your side contributing to your Gathering of information.
He was one of them. He was very generous wasn't it? Did John was I mean honestly on my show yesterday I cried I was broken down. I cried pretty much all night last night and my wife had to consult me. My wife was crying. John was a very influential person to me. He mentored me he did so much for me and my life.
It's II have I don't really have words right now call and in a way to really truly scope John his significance and and him mentoring me and all the things he did but I'll just tell you, you know for my heart, you know, I met John like you did when he was on a specific board. I think it was nothing the meso formed back in 2002 or 2003 and he.
If you remember he went by the handle Swale. Yeah, so so so here's the funny thing. I'll show some personal [00:47:00] stories if I can do a lot of time to take as long as you want good. Okay, so when John and I met through that which again was about probably three years after I started therapeutic testosterone and then I became just a total nerd into it all and stuff like that.
We knew each other for probably six or seven years just to the internet and it says the anonymous internet of the early 2000s. And so when he finally met me personally and which was in a 2013 2013 and 2014 our remember I was like John this is who I am, you know, and he was like, you know, that's just annoying me ignored me and I finally was like, you know what I was doing physically I had a piece of paper of the conversation that him and I had that printed out and I handed it to him.
Sounds like John this is me. It was like he so really it is like holy shit and you know you jump up and he hugged me [00:48:00] and he embraced me and he's like, oh my God, it was an absolute. Pioneer I mean you already said it call but let me reiterate it. Yeah, John changed Medicine John people don't really understand the other younger people that are in the space.
And obviously I'm not as old as you call before he ate in less than a month, but you know, I've been around long enough and I know that John was so instrumental in getting therapeutic testosterone brought to the mainstream. I mean, this is a man Playboy did a huge feature article on him. He was an absolute.
You know, nobody John always knew he didn't care. I remember him telling me that he was like day, you know better than anyone the power of the testosterone molecule. He said he was like fuck all these idiots. He's like do you think that I care when they attack me or they smoked me or they do this and they do that we both know what this molecule does for human life.
And so it was like that's his stance right there. Like all [00:49:00] he knew that. What he was doing with the right thing and that testosterone was such an amazing tool when obviously use therapeutically and so, you know, he always stood behind that and so in his mind, it's like I don't care what they say about me.
I don't care if it's a that I have the Maverick or I practice differently or all these things. I know I'm right and so for that fuck do that mean you and I can both stay here right now and 2019. And say he was and to be that far out in front of the mainstream, obviously the inertia and the dogma of the whole quote sick care illness medicine, whatever the hell it is these days.
I mean, that's what we need to remember him from and you know, a lot of us obviously also known call from his crazy. He's got diatribes on Facebook when social media first came out, you know, he would talk about like he said the family court system and again brilliant mind that he would bring his personal life.
Social media walls and I just remember some of the Stop and again, he was such a great man, but I would read some of the [00:50:00] stuff and I'd be like, wow, that guy is so smart. Then I would be also like thinking like dude filter, but you just John John then again, if we're going to honor his legacy John was the first doctor to truly.
Position testosterone the way it needed to be position and at that time I mean you and I know this I mean we're still attack even today. So imagine the pain and the suffering and the attacks that he must have suffered from the mainstream. What he was as Advocate, you know so outspoken and so passionate about such a you know, militarized, you know quarantine topics as therapeutic testosterone.
So in moving forward, I think everyone of us owes a massive massive debt of gratitude to John for who he was. Yeah. No, he actually allowed doctors to get into the discussion with bodybuilders because the bodybuilders really were the ones that were doing all of the experimentation. Right, you know and and he actually was the first one.
I mean, I didn't know any doctors who [00:51:00] were lurking around the bodybuilding forums in 2000 none. He was the only one and he got a lot of grief for it to you know, I texted Anthony Roberts. I don't know if you remember this, but he and Anthony got into some really really bad stuff back in 2000 2002 and I told Anthony, you know doctor I did I said do you have time to come on?
To talk about dr. Crystal passed away. He said he died and I said, yes, he goes. That's very sad. And I said did you guys ever make peace because you know Chrysler hated Anthony because Anthony wrote the testosterone guide, you know, I mean the the anabolic steroid users guide and research got and and really, dr.
Crystal didn't really have any real beef with Anthony other than. Anthony was. Kind of pioneering an area that he was in his well, really I kind of feel that that was that that whole thing and I said did you guys [00:52:00] ever make peace I can he says I guess we did yesterday which I thought was really poetic, you know because he felt bad, you know, he felt bad.
Yeah, you know what even the even the people who had run-ins with him didn't want anything harmful to happen to her. No listen, so I'm glad you brought that up. He has been again. Anybody can buy my books and see he's all through or both of the book. There are many articles in the TOC Bible. He has a giant long article and conversation about sex hormone-binding globulin, which is extremely Next Level still is now because most people still don't understand that they could do but I always would go to him and ask him John.
This is what I want to talk about. Can you share your comments and he always. Without question would stop what you're doing and help me and honestly him and I did five or six podcast together, maybe more. I don't remember they're all over I'm getting tons of comments this morning, you know on YouTube and people saying our IP and John again was just a [00:53:00] Pioneer and he always would go out of his way to help me.
He never has been the one thing I do regret and I'll be very honest with you right now is that he did want to write a book with me? And you know, this was about a year after not a few it was about a year and a half after the first book about the care team annual original in 2015. And I was in the middle of doing a lot of other things in my life building my site scaling doing all the things I was doing and I just never I said John I would be awesome.
I would be humbled. I appreciate the honor and stuff and we just never got around to it. Obviously. At the time that I wrote the Quixote bad why I asked him how much you know, he could help me and he was involved in a lot of stuff for his speaking and he just didn't have a lot of time but he said I'll give you as much time as I can.
I want to write an article for sex our lawn and garden once I was like perfect so that's what maybe my one regret is I didn't get a chance to actually write a book with him because I know that it would have been amazing. But yeah, I mean. Again, dude, Ryan and John did so much for the bodybuilding world.
He did he did. So he again he was the guy that never left Man Behind. I know he call he donated a lot of pro bono work. I know he was [00:54:00] he was opening his clinic on the weekend for guys that has absolutely destroyed themselves at Nasa doses of antibiotics and he would, you know, give the restoration protocols and never charge them by the way.
I don't handwrite them sweat. I mean so I mean, this is the man that he did so much for this world. It's really hard to for me to summarize like what he meant to not only me personally the every all of us in this community. I mean he is a true legend and he will be missed and as I told you I can assure everyone that his legacy will become legendary under me because I will honor him and cherish him as best as I can Jay.
Thanks for taking time to come on the show today, man. I appreciate all thank you for having me. Take care. We're going to take one quick commercial break. And when we come back going to be joined by a personal friend of dr. Chris. Lee's Drew cat crowd and said he can share some of the personal stories with the stay tuned.
We'll be right back. Welcome back. [00:55:00] Very sad day. I still can't believe it. You know when you know somebody for a long time and then they pass for whatever reason it takes a long time just to realize that they're gone. I'm sitting here looking at the picture of dr. Crystal that I created for the show post today.
And you know, you look at this guy. You think man, he's he's handsome. He he had a large following and a great deal of Fame. He contributed a lot to the health. Of a lot of people and he's got light in his eyes in this picture and you just can't believe he's gone. It's really really sad. My next guest is a personal friend of dr.
Crystal. This is Drew crowd, and how you doing Drew. I've been better. Well, I am so tired and all fairness. I blindsided Drew because Drew had texted me last night and said do you know how he died and I just told you that he took his own life and you pretty shocked about that, right? Yeah, I [00:56:00] would have never dreamed of that of.
You know, I'm just really in shock them. I don't know. Let's do this. When how did you meet? Dr. Crisler? I'm not deaf. I'm 49 years old. I met dr. Sister what I was approved at least 30 years old. I never wanted to live in the gym. Would you like to work out and obviously I did too. I was diagnosed with the pituitary gland issue and had a lot of hormonal issues.
And I met him and we just hit it off. We had a lot of mutual friends in common that we owned over the years. His dad was actually a detective I believe [00:57:00] for the Lansing Police Department. I remember correctly. You didn't talk much about Islam over the years but. you know John was he always marched to the beat of his own drum and that's what made it very easy.
It was in the military. You have military experience. Put himself through school to become a doctor. As you know, Carlos you've been around or associated with him for sometime. It sounds like. His horse is a very controversial person. Yeah, well he has he has he has stronger back down from a fight, right?
He has strong opinions and he lets people know his opinion tool and yes, he doesn't back down from a fight which was obvious in the most devastating lawsuit. He was involved with during [00:58:00] his divorce his ex-wife literally dragged. Through the mud and just tried to destroy his life and the court system today is such that if you're a man, you are automatically seen as a terrorist in in in family court now, they're probably some good judges out there right now if there's any judges listening, they're probably going.
Oh good. I'm glad he said that because I'm a good one. I don't know that you are but most of the judges in family court today mistreatment. They abused men their prejudice against men and John saw that firsthand because they. Literally his ex-wife wielded that court system like a lightsaber to destroy him and it was it was horrible.
It was horrible. And I know that he carried says he and I share that in common because I had a similar situation and there's nothing that being falsely accused of something is a horrible horrible horrible horrible thing when you have to swallow it and accept it and. I know that that really hurt him.
[00:59:00] I know that hurt him spiritually that that whole court case and I don't think he ever truly recovered from it. I think that he learned to accept it and move past it but I don't think he ever truly recovered from it. That's just my humble opinion. I can I I could agree with more of everything that you just said.
No, unfortunately, the courts are not really bad Brad a bad position because you know, if one person whether it's male or female abuses another person anyway, and there's any sport generation they are if they don't go after and a hundred hundred percent of I know cases where it's just stopped with a woman's got Andrew.
You know for acting out and doing doing things also write this it's just a terrible cycle. And if you get involved with that, it can be devastating especially with him with his medical [01:00:00] license, which is that what one of our last conversations that was the majority of the conversation was the community and.
Also being sickened by what they were putting through the man was having to. Do community service were in this was all over accusations accusations. Also there was never any physical proof right to my understanding right was there and said had cameras in his home when all this acid right and. No, I think he's really got off on the wrong foot with so for police officers, you know, who did the report I just took it all.
Snowball and it's not in his favor whatsoever. But well [01:01:00] hello, I really didn't realize that was still. Well, I think he was quote-unquote past it because he accepted it, but I know that from time to time when he and I would communicate and any anything within the arena of divorce. or Family Court came up, you know, he would he would start to mention, you know, they're horrible what they destroy men's lives and blah blah blah, and so I know that I don't think you ever.
I think you I don't think you I get I guess you can say you get passed it by accepting it but you never forget it. It's like, you know, it's like being raped you may live a good life, but you never forget what it feels like to be raped by a system. You never mind a person, you know, I mean it really is and I know it always bothered him.
It always did bother him and. He had wonderful women in his life. I've heard a lot about his current girlfriend. I think [01:02:00] her name is Arlene his fiance. He was crazy about her. He told me he was crazy about her. You know, I met Carla I can't think of Carla's last name when we were in Michigan last time a Lisa and I we hung out with them.
We had dinner with them. You know, he always had wonderful women in his life women who adored him. They looked up to him this idea that. One of my previous guest shared that John had intimated to his wife that he felt like he wished he would have found the love that he was looking for and he wished he would have had children because he felt he would have been a great dad that those are those are those are subjective things to for people of feel, you know, what, you know, Eliza and I would talk about this just this morning.
If you don't verbalize to your lover what you need to feel loved you could be in a 30-year marriage and never feel loved and and and [01:03:00] and and you can't expect your lover to guess. We're not telepathic very few of us other than Lisa have the ability to read minds. We're not telepathic you have to verbalize like this is what it takes for me to feel.
But but I have a strange feeling that this didn't occur because there weren't good people in his life. I really think I'm gonna what do you reckon Carlo Carlo? I believe live in Brooklyn, Michigan. Which I believe she's wherever I think that Brooklyn, Michigan, okay. I believe he said wonderful things about her also how she is the sweetest person for everyone.
I think I communicated with you waterskiing up and bruised bicep tendon off. I think that was he was with her at the chokes are real close to Brooklyn right why I recognize that. I've never met Carla or Lena person. I just I heard their names. Yeah try that. I kind of drifted [01:04:00] apart, you know, probably seven eight years ago.
Right or not. I used to live close to the Lansing and that's when I get a lot more contact which I live down by prefer and I will just south of Jackson. Okay, that doesn't like to pick up a phone and say hey buddy. How you doing? Right. Right, right. We had that kind of relationship another person that just passed away and I don't know if you ever heard of whose name was Dwayne Miguel key was really.
In the part of jobs left he passed away from cancer in the last year. Yeah sure that had to be really devastated job. How is he a big? How was he a big part? How was he a big part of John's life? Tell me. Well, he was a was a superstar in his own way. Just like John the way you wrote books on psychology that were actually published.
He worked in all the [01:05:00] facets of the fitness industry. He was a professional football player one time. It's just kind of a like a mentor that anybody that was a loan deal. Does that make any sense? Yeah, and I talked to you about he was published in Playboy Magazine John at one point. I had John guare.
Yes. Yeah. That was because we knew that happen. When was the guy behind that? Interests and they both have super super strong personalities. So there is relationship, you know, if faded along the way well, I'm sure that I know I know we both care very deeply about each other yet. You want to try to save the wants to a lot of things together.
So you so you're saying that John may have been emotionally affected by that by his passing you're saying. [01:06:00] I'm sure probably didn't help things. You know. I really just I know Dwayne would be somebody that got to call and talk to if he felt that I'd ever dreamed I mean. honest. This is this self so much.
They please I got to take his own life that makes this something doesn't add up to me right and their mm. I have a hard time buying that car. I apologize. I really know. I know I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I blindsided you with that. I really I feel bad. I was like right before they like I'm like so, you know John took his own life and you and you were just really quiet and I don't wait we have to go on the air now.
So that was kind of that was kind of unfair of me. I didn't realize that [01:07:00] you didn't know that that was the case. So I apologize. Well. No, I had no idea. I'm sorry. It had a heart attack and which I reached out to Arlene and I never spoke with her last night, and I asked what happened and she reply back and I just figured it was.
You both should be the time to let it all sink in. What did it happen? Did it have just yesterday? I guess it was yesterday morning that they found him. I think I think I don't know the timelines, you know, I don't know the timeline, but I guess Arlene found him in the garage hanging in the garage.
And this is very very sad, you know, everybody who liked a new doctor Crisler like myself. The first thing I thought of is man. I wish I would have. Talk to maybe reach out to them on Facebook or contact them or you know in the past week, but we're all so busy with our lives. We're also tied up and tied down and running as fast as we can that it's really hard to stop and check in on people and and and you only check in on people when you [01:08:00] see that there's something going on with them.
Otherwise, you don't think of them and I said to Lisa Isis, I feel like I wish I would have known. You know something was going on I would have reached out to him. I would have tried to convince him that you know life isn't really that bad. It sucks sometimes but it's this is not this is a long-term solution to a short-term problem.
But I also give John a lot of respect of being intelligent. And as I said with poem smart for his own good I want to know what's right and I'm going to roast people and I just said to Jay Campbell I said, you know. I've always believed that suicide is a passive aggressive action. You take your own life to hurt other people because the people that suffer the ones left behind who feel like they wish they could have helped you but I don't think that was a very massive sister that yeah, but I don't I don't but I don't think that was dr.
Chris leurs Mo here. I really don't I have a strange feeling. That [01:09:00] he just felt that. He was tired of whatever demons he was fighting. Whatever they want. They're different for everybody. And I feel like he just felt like there's nothing left. I've done this I've done you know, there's nothing left.
I'm done. You know, I'm done with this. I don't want to fight anymore. I don't want to work hard anymore. I don't want to struggle anymore. I don't want to feel bad anymore. And I don't want to hurt the other people either and quite frankly. I kind of feel like he feels like he was doing the other people of favor like they'd be better off without me in the picture right now.
I don't know why and that's really I'm overstepping by saying that but, you know, I don't think that he was a passive aggressive person. He was the kind of person that have you said something to him, and he disagreed with you. He jumped in your face and told you all he punched a meth cook that he wasn't he wasn't passive-aggressive.
He wasn't passive-aggressive. No, not at all. I'll call [01:10:00] you. So he wants to marry in and Marshall and. Obviously got on a topic with somebody he didn't see eye-to-eye with. and all of us my buddies calling me out, you know, this is. I was probably 40 years old. This probably made me 9 years old.
You need to call him help me out here, you know Marshall and
I will have the time to settle down. John had to be probably pushing what 48? How old is he now? Well, he just turned 60 last year. He would have been 61 on May in May. I think May 19th of this year. He would have been 61. I'll be 61 in June. He's he's just slide a few months older than me. He's actually a month old.
I'm sorry. He would [01:11:00] have turned 61 in May and I will I will turn 61 in June with God's help. I guess I will he will he will be there but when he was 50, so he was 51 this conversation happened. I mean that I mean 50 years old if you really believed in something and it was remember what that was about.
It really pissed him off or just his at 50 years old. He was still willing quite and that's. you know, you don't find that very often people will say that for the principles that are at that age. Well, that's all he needs to come out to my house. Why not son? I'm not either like so many committed suicide.
I just I can't no don't like trouble really looked up to Johnny didn't know him well, but he knew it he knew that he was an important person in my life. I lost $500,000 at one [01:12:00] point time in my life for the manner of days. I don't Vol 2 a business that just didn't work out for a while. You know, we all have our ups and downs.
And John gave me some very very good advice at that point. Probably one of the lowest parts of my life. Tim and Duane and was waiting for very good for that. That and actually gave me advice to help me turn my work for help. and I just keeps was so strong that I just. All right. I don't know what's going on as like to the city are problems for this practice was this practice?
Okay, always practice was great. He was he was actually we had dr. Mark Gordon on during the first half hour of Today's Show and Mark and he a colleagues have worked to get it for decades and Mark his pioneering therapies to help people with traumatic [01:13:00] brain injury, and he just told John we're going to take you on the speaking tour.
You can talk about testosterone just a couple months ago. They had that discussion. So. You know John had a lot of things to go in and a lot of things to look forward to I know he had a successful practice. He was working with a lot of men a lot of men learned about him from my shows. How did you how do you how are you and I friends I'm just curious are we friends because I interviewed John years and years ago.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you will be useful. I guess we're probably the best website that works in the fitness industry either full or part-time for about 25 years. I don't know health clubs. You probably know will dabish was a good friend of mine, right? I do know him. I like well. And we probably know a lot of people in common over.
Okay? Okay. Okay, but yeah, but John John was doing well. I know that he was in love and you know, [01:14:00] and I know that there's other people saying that he was still searching for love, but I know that he told me he was in love and he met this girl and she's just wonderful. You know, he had a lot to look forward to and that's why I guess these types of situations make everyone scratched her head and go.
What did I miss? Like what? What is it? What did I miss? You know, dr. Mark Gordon pointed out in the first half hour the delicacy of neuro. Neurohormones the brains hormones and how they're affected by trt testosterone replacement therapy and why it's important to be supplementing with other things like pregnant alone and DHEA and all that sort of stuff.
But John knew that so I said to mark but John knew that he goes. Yeah, but was he doing it? We don't know and so. You know and I understand that people go. Well, we'll come on. Of course. He knew it. Of course. He was in know. There's a lot of things. I know that I talked about on the show that I tell other people to do and I stopped I fail to do them sometimes and it's just because it's not because I don't believe in him.
It's [01:15:00] because well, I'm just doing everything else right now. So, you know what happens to the brain when it thinks that the only next step is to take your own life. This is a very complex. Discussion and I don't think that we could forensically look at his life and go. Oh he had no reason to do this.
Why did he do this? Well, obviously he did have a reason to do it because he did it in his mind through his eyes standing in his shoes. That was the thing to do. So we can't judge and and it's very sad. It's very very sad. You know, it's like I don't know how to put it in words and Jay Campbell said, I don't even know how to put it in words.
It's it's sad on so many levels on so many levels. Some levels are selfish and some levels aren't some levels. I can understand and some levels. I just go but why it's just it doesn't make sense, but I would laugh my quarterback. I was trying [01:16:00] to do research and they said that he came off of a eyes, you know, estrogen management.
I thought the same thing a little while ago said that you know, he finally came off of the aromatase Inhibitors and that that definitely could play a role in brain chemistry changing so dramatically, you know, and I harken back to the story. About the young boy, I can't think of his name. I actually interviewed his father in 2006 after he killed himself.
There was a young boy who was on anabolic steroids. They took the the he they they saw a psychiatrist the psychiatrist told him to stop using them and put them on antidepressants and he committed suicide about two months later. And they blamed it on the anabolic steroids and people like wait a minute.
Like what about the the antidepressants now fast forward to today? We know that people commit suicide when they're on [01:17:00] antidepressants all the time. So obviously they lead to Suicide. Well, it could potentially be that being on an aromatase inhibitor for a very very long period of time and not titrating the dose down.
And and then taking yourself off of a might not be a good idea could affect brain chemistry obviously know it does. I'm on hormone replacement therapy obviously and I hope that for years and I know that if I don't take my estrogen and I take a small though, if I take a point two five once a week aromasin, It definitely affects my thought process.
It just affects. It affects every effects everything because you know the Insurgent that feedback loop it's everything in manageable perm so that what is the process because that's the one that taught me what I know about that. I don't know why he [01:18:00] would ever come off of you know, why does he take it because because there's a lot there's a lot of evidence that men who are on testosterone who would not necessarily high aromatize is like they're not producing dangerous levels of estrogen should not be taking a eyes because estrogen is a very important hormone for men and.
And just the way decades ago, everybody thought women just needed estrogen and then they realize though they need estrogen and progesterone and now they going oh, they need estrogen progesterone and testosterone. You know, when the onion is still being peeled about male hormone replacement therapy seems we always thought women are complex and men are simple.
Just give a man testosterone. He's fine. Well now finding out what that's not true. No, no, I blow up with that. I start reading my water retention to jail, but I take a minut amount. I take your very little amount. So it's. yeah, I don't I feel comfortable said that sound but. I know [01:19:00] he had a heart condition that I know a eyes can cause issues with us and made that might have been part of this and also I'm not sure I didn't have the discussion with he had he did he did he did have he did have a blockage he was they did put a stent in him and you're right a eyes cause some dis lipid emia.
They also called some changes in the liver that could lead to. Dyslipidemia, and and also, let's not forget this very important fact. That estradiol is an anti-inflammatory. It's a very powerful anti-inflammatory effect. Dr. George truly Otto's challenge me on this not too long ago and said that it's not and I said did you do the I'm not going to spend all my time looking for this you go to PubMed and you.
Google you you search for estradiol and faf or fibroblast activation Factor every cell on the body [01:20:00] has an f a f receptor estradiol dachshund it to suppress acute inflammation. There's a study out there that shows that blunt force trauma to the Head. And Aroma taste in the brain starts to convert androgens to estradiol immediately to arrest and suppress swelling and inflammation.
So, you know, we have gotten it wrong about estradiol estradiol is not a bad thing for men. It's a good thing for men. It protects them from getting Parkinson's disease. I mean, it's like political causes fat loss. And so I think that he was coming around to the recognition that you know, maybe I wasn't right about this.
In the time for me to shift, but I maybe he just didn't do it, right. I don't know. I don't know. I wear this is all this is you know, this is all armchair quarterbacking here, right, you know talking about something. I don't we don't know. We don't know everything that you just said because it would take too much.
You are a lot of pain anytime football [01:21:00] aromatase inhibitor, right? You have a heart of paint as you know, it's a good thing either. And in the causes of high cholesterol type of please write in some people and others. I'm clean as a whistle. Yeah, you know, it's just, you know, different things effective different people differently.
That's true. That's true. Dr. John though. You would know this with he was a Pioneer. He wrote that he developed a protocol for HT. Right by your hormone replacement therapy, right? He's lectured all over the world over 8 4 M and then and then a am mg which was another anti aging or going to he sees been a keynote speaker for both of those groups.
Yeah, and you know always been controversial. They either love them or hate them was only [01:22:00] between the people either bought on those series or did that so much but you know, that's why they call it practice medicine, you know, there's two series and different opinions. So we just have to do your homework.
But Drew I want to thank you so much for coming on today and sharing personal stories about dr. Crisler. Yeah, he's a great loss to us all Carl. Yeah, I know. We're all going to feel this for a long time. There's no doubt about it. The strongest people you've ever met in your life. Yeah, that's something like this.
Yeah, okay. But anyways, I'm at now. Yes, thank you drew Paul that house. Thank you. Thank you. That's it. I can sit here and tell stories about dr. Crisler, but I think my guests have summed it all up very nicely and he will be missed it's going to be very very hard to fill. The vacuum that he will create in this [01:23:00] space as far as male hormone replacement therapy goes very very hard.
There's a lot of doctors out there who may think that they can but they can't because he was he was an original thinker. and that's rare in medicine today. That's all I've got for today. I'm sorry to be delivering this news, but let's all think about dr. Crystal because I have a strong belief.
That we all die twice. once when a heart stops beating. and once when the last person who remembers us heart stops beating, so let's carry Chris Le forward with us. Okay. Thanks.
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