Jamie Caporosso (aka @ketodaddy)
Of all the dietary templates, keto may be the most misunderstood as to its overall simplicity. So many "experts" in the space make it much harder than it really needs to be. Caporosso was the first in the space to combine the keto diet with the sensibility of paleo diet which made it work for so many more people. Now he distills it down again so that everyone can understand and use the keto diet successfully. Now Carl throws a new factor into the keto discussion that no one is discussing.
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[00:00:00] Today is the second broadcast day of the new year. Got a lot of really positive comments about yesterday show with Tammy nesland that also opens up some discussions into diet as well. We're going to have Tammy back on and some other people to talk about this even more Today's Show is about. I'm joined today by my good [00:01:00] friend Jamie cepero.
[00:01:01] So, how you doing? Jamie? Good Carl. How are you guys doing good good A lot of people know you as keto daddy that you you have been talking about the keto diet, but you know, I gotta say something about you. Yeah you actually so so I am not a proponent of long-term keto any more than I am a proponent of long term vegan.
[00:01:24] For similar reasons, but but you are the first person in the space of all the keto gurus to say no. No. No, you have to combine keto with paleo. You have to pay attention to protein. It's not just about fat. Isn't that true? You were really the one who came up with the whole keto Paleo Approach, right?
[00:01:41] Yeah. I mean I started paleo and I learned a lot of thing about nutrients anti-nutrients and and things on that. You know in that genre are there and then when I was looking for athletic performance advantages, I you know, I stumbled across the K keto diet there [00:02:00] for you know, Stephen Finney and bollocks early work and you know, I couldn't give up on what I learned already because I'd had so so much a huge Advantage with it.
[00:02:10] You know that I was like, how can I leave that behind so I pretty much try to combine The Best of Both Worlds, especially if. Preparing for any type of you know powerlifting meter CrossFit made and how is this any different than some of the early fathers of modern nutrition? Steffensen these guys they all espoused a high protein high fat diet, very low carbohydrate 60 grams of carbs a day well below and many of the early bodybuilders like Vince Juran.
[00:02:45] And our montani and Rio Blair these guys were all doing what we would consider today a high-protein keto diet. And why are we [00:03:00] you know right now in politics words have more to do with people's accepting them than the actual premises behind the words. When you say keto you almost put up a lightning rod for people who want to just come out.
[00:03:14] And Bash the keto diet, isn't that true? Oh, yeah, you know it's with anything, you know, when it's new everyone wants to be on the ground floor and think it's cool. But once it starts give building that popularity and you know gets up on its pedestal people want to tear it down and then you always like any diet you get the 50 different shades of it, you know you I call it the 50 Shades of paleo and I'll you got the 50 Shades of.
[00:03:41] Keto diet and and now I'm seeing different versions of carnivore diet on top of it and I'm just like God these people will tweak anything to make it. Well you you already coined a new term didn't you call lacto carnivore diet, right? Because people want to eat cheese with their meat, right? Yeah lacto [00:04:00] carnivore now because they, you know, somehow these there's keto or I'm sorry carnivore cheese pizza showing up.
[00:04:08] And I'm like, how how did we get from there from here to there on a carnivore diet and making a pizza It's just sometimes just blowing my mind. Well part of the problem is this and I just had this kind of this discussion with Tammy nesland yesterday people don't want to do. What's in their own best interest diet error?
[00:04:34] If they can't feel like they're enjoying flavors. Oh, I want to have a keto pizza. I want to have keto cookies. I want to have you know, keto desserts I want and and the reality is the ultra simplification of the diet is where it should be and that is eating Whole Foods that fit the macronutrient breakdowns and and all of this.
[00:04:58] You know Kettle waffles and [00:05:00] and and you know paleo popcorn, you know, because we're not supposed to be eating corn and Pella. It's actually what ends up ruining these diets in my humble opinion. Yeah. I think you can take your kid take it seriously anymore. How can you take paleo seriously when you have.
[00:05:19] You know Paleo Desserts our Paleolithic ancestors. The desert was a was a bitter apple. It was a bitter apple. That was it. Yeah and best at best, right? You know. Yeah, I agree 100% people twist and contort these things to the point where you can't believe anything you hear anymore and then you got people stepping up to the plate and just hearing about it and trying to figure it out.
[00:05:44] You know, I belong to a lot of these keto pages and a lot of beginners trying to figure things out and all of a sudden we got, you know marketing coming in here now because people are trying to sell. You know Slimfast selling different brands of fat bombs and bars and they're still the old [00:06:00] akan stuff out there.
[00:06:01] And then Jenny Craig Jenny Craig new ad with that Jesse James Decker singer and songwriter from California. They have now inserted in the past month keto friendly into the end Kettle friendly. It's like, oh my God, they're even jumping on the bandwagon that it's keto friend. Yeah, yeah and you know it and if the people who are going to dig a Little Deeper may find the truth in there and may find their weight of real whole food about I think was about four years ago.
[00:06:31] I was on I've got one on Jimmy Moore's low-carb cruise. I was one of the athletic speakers for him. And someone asked how can we you know, how can we get this word out more? How can we how can we really get this keto diet to the Forefront? I said you have to find someone who's going to make money on.
[00:06:50] Yeah, that's the only way because if people are profiting from it, they're not going to promote it and that's really a sad story. Isn't it? Yeah, no exactly. You go into a vitamin shop you [00:07:00] go into a GNC you go wherever they got these huge keto sections that's popped up overnight. Yeah, because because they found a way to jump on that wagon and sell you something and see you the easiest thing about keto right, like like paleo can be complicated, right?
[00:07:14] You know, you've got lots of different vegetables. And then you've got the people stay away from nightshades and then you've got lots of different animal proteins and you've got you know, no grains, but some grain is okay, like some people do Paleo but they say rice is okay and so it can be complicated but very but but keto is ultra simple.
[00:07:34] It's even more simple than vegan because basically what you're doing is eating high fat moderate protein low carbohydrate diet. That is the therapeutic. Keto diet that the FDA approved to control seizures. Yep, and and that is being used to treat cancer today and part of the problem is that that is the keto diet that's not popular with people who don't have [00:08:00] seizures and don't have cancer because they want to eat and enjoy their food you ask a guy who's resolving a brain tumor if he misses Pizza, he'll he'd say to you look I drink motor oil if it'll make my tumor go away.
[00:08:13] Exactly, but then you have all these other people like well can't we come up with keto dessert? I really miss dessert dude, you like not getting it you Just Not That Into You know, it's an easy diet. If you just eat high fat moderate protein low carbohydrates. It's very simple it is, you know, and I heard a little bit of if there's a there's a lot of layers to that.
[00:08:37] You know, it does always a lot of times come back to paleo for me is like, you know, we're a species that spent most of its Evolution starving and and now we live in this world where there's just everything and everything and we got food engineer's making this stuff just absolutely so palatable to us that it's almost an addiction, you [00:09:00] know, it's just it's crippling to some people.
[00:09:04] You know, it's just such a problem and I really think the biggest problem of them all is just this abundance of food that we're surrounded by whether you go paleo Kido vegan, whatever if you're constantly filling that grocery whole you're going to have a problem. Yes, and that's an important distinction to take down from a macro to a micro for a second.
[00:09:28] Yeah, so there are people out there. Who think Kettle means I can eat and I can say this because I used to be 330 pounds. So I'm allowed to say some of these things. You know what I mean? Like I'm Italian I can tell Italian jokes, right? So there are a lot of people out there that think that just because you're eating fat you're eating bacon you're eating butter that you can eat like a big fat slob and not turn out to be a big fat slob, right?
[00:09:57] And I and it's unfortunate that some of these [00:10:00] people the well-meaning people that are trying to interpret this diagram. Our beer that's long and they're telling ya and you know, and I've come to the conclusion that this is why they have such a huge followings because they are complete failures at their own diet and and most people fail at diets.
[00:10:18] So they end up being surrounded by people who can't get it right who want to follow a leader who can't get it right? Because that justifies and alleviates their guilt for not getting it right all look. He can't even do it. So I'm I like him. He's like me, you know what I'm saying? Misery loves company.
[00:10:34] Yes, exactly. The reality is that if you are not starving a little bit on the keto diet. It's not going to work for you. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah, there has to be a little bit of a calorie deficit. There are I mean if your goal is to lose weight. There has to be some type of calorie deficit and you can argue insulin responses in this that and the other thing and maybe it's more effective for some people because of this that or you know, the other reason and [00:11:00] and you know, maybe a typical bodybuilder diet is better for someone else who's do, you know whatever but yeah, there has to be a deficit.
[00:11:07] So you took it upon yourself to do something and a lot of people are going to look at this book and think that it's not worth anything because it's there's not a lot to it. But what you've done is you've shown that the keto diet is simple and it can be simple and it should be simple and so you came out with a book called easy keto quick and easy read to Optimal Health and weight loss with the ketogenic diet.
[00:11:31] Now a lot of people look at this book and go. Come on, Jamie. Would you do write this on a weekend? But the reality is that all those other people that are writing these big complicated books that F you finish reading them. You still go? Okay, but how do I eat? Yeah. Yeah because they want to impress you they want to impress you with their knowledge of Science and they want to imprint it's almost like they're getting paid by the friggin word.
[00:11:55] It seemed like it and to be honest with you. That's the path. I started [00:12:00] down. I was trying to write a book at the level of like a doctor Eads or in all Michael Pollan kind of thing where it just was a huge bombardment of me pounding my chest showing you how much science Jamie knows but the hundred questions I get a week on Facebook or Instagram or whatever aren't that questions?
[00:12:21] There's what maybe. Ten of us that want to know that science or I'd be trying to impress in that community and the hundreds upon hundreds of people who just want to Jamie. How do I do this diet? Can you break it down super simple for me? Sure. Here's three easy chapters, even if you want to call them a chapter compared to some of my friends books, you know, there's there was it 66 total Pages or something like that in my book.
[00:12:48] And that includes so, you know a boring history of Jamie in the beginning and at that's just what I wanted to do is give the people the questions they were asking. [00:13:00] You know, that's the way you have to teach people. You can't you can't you if you talk over people's heads. They don't get anything.
[00:13:05] They don't get it. Yeah, the book is called easy Kettle. We're going to talk more about it. Where can people where should people go to get the book? You get you can get it on Amazon Amazon or I have a website called keto daddy.com. The basically just links you to Amazon and I created that in the beginning keto daddy.com that is just to help people learning and looking for keto resources different books different cookbooks and people are interested in you know, blood testers and meters and all that other kind of thing.
[00:13:37] They can get it at either place. But Amazon is who I published it through actually he did it myself. How much is the book it's only $14.99. And if it's Kindle it's 999. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's very very inexpensive and you cover everything including sickness and ailment you cover the whole Kettle flew phenomenon.
[00:13:57] I mean you cover a lot of really good information here, but more importantly [00:14:00] you lay out Simply like how to do the diet and it's and this is the problem. I think that the keto diet has nowadays. And that is that people in an effort to I mean, there's people out there who is selling books on intermittent fasting.
[00:14:15] How can how much simpler can this get? He stopped eating at 6 p.m. And you don't start eating again till the next day at 10 a.m. Yeah. No, no, no wait. Let me write a friggin book about it instead and sell a book for 2495. What wait a minute. What is this about? Oh you stop eating at 6 p.m. You start eating at 10:00.
[00:14:35] So I got to read this whole book are basically you have to read that whole book to know that. You know, that's that's funny that you say that because I after writing easy keto I thought it was right going to write ET easy fasting but for the life of me, I can't come up with three pages. Well, I mean, you can absolutely you could you could document.
[00:14:54] All the research that's been done on calorie restriction intermittent fasting going [00:15:00] all the way back. I mean I started to about intermittent fasting. I think it was and I was still living in Phoenix. So that means it was 2007 or 2008 with a doctor who published a study from the University of Mexico Mexico City.
[00:15:17] You know that that that intimate that fasting every other day fasting. Was more effective that cat than calorie restriction for turning on sirtuins doing all those great things, but you lose weight as well. I mean, so. I mean it but it's fasting is so simple and you don't need a book if you already believe that fasting is the right thing for you to do.
[00:15:37] You don't need a book just stop eating at 6 and start eating a 10 or stop eating at 7 and thought eating at 11 and make sure when you stop eating there's a three-day window of not eating before you go to sleep. And that's not the deal Beretta since information. That'll heat help you not get Alzheimer disease.
[00:15:55] Oh, yeah, there's a lot of research on that your body going into a repair [00:16:00] mode instead of a replace mode. Once you're starving I mean and then again, you know, like I said it always a lot of times rolls back, too. The Paleolithic Era think think about how often we were starving and for how many days at a time and you tell me that that didn't evolve with us at some point that there was an advantage to one of our genetic mutations that said hey this species is going to do better than it was it was Bull days.
[00:16:23] This was that this was a strong selection pressure. If you didn't fall down and become food after not eating for three days you had Offspring and they were blessed with that same ability to survive. Long periods of time without food and still function but make no dismiss take about it. I've done shows about the transgenerational inheritances of people who are in that starvation mode when the woman gets pregnant, uh-huh, you know.
[00:16:55] If somebody is doing a deep keto diet for years and the wife is doing a deep debt of keto [00:17:00] diet for years. They just love it. They're posting their their Ketone levels on Instagram and you know, they're just killing it and she gets pregnant and they're living in this, you know to millimoles of ketones average a day world that child is going to be assembled to.
[00:17:18] Make a lot more body fat, Joe Green came on and quoted the science that shows this and and so the keto diet is is real. It has a it has some profound effects on neurological disorders and a variety of other benefits that has but make no bones about it because it's real it has impact on other things.
[00:17:38] You may not want it to oh exactly but take a look around it has that just not happen. Anyway, think about the centuries that we went. I'm starving mothers and that's why you see you know, some people who are you know, genetically adapted to just pack it on right? You know, so you have to be careful you again I say the keto diet is a [00:18:00] great thing to do periodically, I really think it's good to cycle in and out of it.
[00:18:04] I even like dr. Mario depasquale original anabolic diet book of 35 years ago where you you do Kido five days a week and on the weekends you do a carb refeed. I think that's a very sensible approach if you are more athletic. What do you think? Well, yeah, I guess it depends what that carb refeed.
[00:18:22] Looks like if it means bombarding a shit ton of Pop-Tarts for the weekend, probably not. You know, I come from an athletic performance background where I'm thinking quality fuel is always the better way to go. So if you said yeah, Jamie no, I'm going with a high carb diets. We consist of mostly nutrient-rich vinyl vegetables.
[00:18:42] I be like, yeah, that's probably not a bad idea, right, you know, and also the advantage is it might have for your gut biome if you're really, you know, missing out on that during the week. You know, there's a lot of advantages to get in like some broccolis and these fibers these natural above [00:19:00] ground vegetable fibers in your gut just to let that biome really proliferate.
[00:19:04] I want to talk about now. I want to take a break and I want to talk about a phenomenon that just happened with me that fits nicely in this discussion. We're talking right now with Jamie Cut Pro. So his book is easy Kettle one, two, three and get it at amazon.com. It's a very fast read if it's if you really haven't tried keto kettle.
[00:19:21] Whatever you want to call it and you're looking for a fast way to jumpstart and get right into it because you don't have to read a friggin huge book to learn all of the science behind it and pay by the word. This is the book for you. Easy, Kettle 1 2 3 Etc. Amazon.com. Check it out. We'll be right back.
[00:19:41] There are lots of benefits that occur when a person switches to the keto diet. And the reason for that is the keto diet is basically. Devoid of any fiber so. for the past few years couple years past two years. I've been struggling with fiber if I [00:20:00] eat fibrous Foods, I get bloated like within minutes my gut gets like the Jiffy Pop popcorn tin for those of you who remember Jiffy Pop.
[00:20:12] And it's uncomfortable for a couple hours and then it goes away. So I've determined that I have a mild case of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth instead of doing antibiotics and they have a really good antibiotic if you have sibo for sure, there is an antibiotic God. I can't think of the name of it.
[00:20:30] Now, it sounds like relax offend, but it's not relaxed if and but anyway. There's a there's an antibiotic that you can take. It's very expensive because they usually give it to people who are traveling abroad and get sick from the water usually take it for one or two days only and as a result of that it's like stupid expensive, but you got to take it for 14 to 21 days.
[00:20:52] It's literally I'm not kidding. It's literally like $1500 for and the company makes it will give you a [00:21:00] discount through the pharmacy, but it's still like $300. You can take that and literally get rid of your sibo because it only affects the small intestine. It doesn't even make it into the large intestine.
[00:21:12] It's not to distributed systemically, but I didn't want to do that because of the cost and because it's still an antibiotic and I don't want to take that if I don't have to I did a show about LL 3 7 which is a Catholicism. It's a naturally occurring peptide in the body that's designed to kill gram-positive gram-negative.
[00:21:33] Bacteria, it kills funguses. It kills. It's just like an amazing antiseptic peptide for your body your body uses it it makes it to control these types of pathogens that may overrun the body and harmful funguses and molds and so on I started using that I can now eat bread if I want to I couldn't eat bread before and I for the longest time.
[00:22:00] [00:22:00] I couldn't eat like high protein high fiber bars. And so yesterday I got the new Quest cookie in the new Quest bar. By the way, they are by far the best that Quest has come out with the chocolate hazelnut. The chocolate tastes so good. It doesn't doesn't have any kind of artificial sweetener finish.
[00:22:23] It is so good and it's chock-full of hazelnuts and I am not a fan of peanut butter cookies, but they're peanut butter chocolate chip cookie. They made it a little thicker and a little smaller if you will they change the form factor a little bit. So it's a little thicker. Oh my God, go out and get these two you won't be disappointed, but I can eat those every day now and not get bloated because of addressing this small intact intestinal bacterial overgrowth using that LL 3 7.
[00:22:51] And by the way, there's a episode talking about this up on my website if people want to learn more about it. It's amazing. You tried to cookie, right? Yeah. It's delicious. It's delicious. [00:23:00] I haven't got the bar yet, but I might have to grab one today. Oh man, you know, I have never been a fan of.
[00:23:06] Chocolate protein bars in general because they all have that artificial finish, right? Yeah. This is the first bar I've ever had that does not do that. It really doesn't if you've been let down by chocolate protein bars in the past because they have that artificial sweetener. I don't know what it is that just kind of hangs in your mouth after you're done eating it.
[00:23:25] This bar does not do that. This bar is mellow. It's chocolatey. It's buttery from the hazelnut. Oh man. It's amazing. Amazing at that's awesome. I'll have to look forward to that. But going on the keto diet can correct a lot of stomach problems, right? Oh, yeah. Definitely. I mean, you know it looking at any Focus.
[00:23:44] Diet can help a lot. Yeah, you know we've been talking both about just eating real food as much as possible and you know, and I have different people who approached me from all different angles on this thing, you know, I'm in the CrossFit community. So a lot of people, you know, a lot of times are already in tune with [00:24:00] a Paleo style diet and then I got other people coming to me that the majority of their meals came from a Speedway gas station.
[00:24:06] You know, so I just I just read I just read an article that says that some ridiculous percentage of the population gets their food from convenience stores. Oh, I believe it. I mean, I don't know if you've ever hang out or been around a gas station or like one of those big huge ones that lunchtime you would believe the influx of people that come to grab some cheap and easy food.
[00:24:28] It's insane and then those people just throwing a stone. In the direction of a Paleo or keto or you know a real food diet, whatever you want to call it would benefit so much, you know, so here's what I discovered I think is missing from the Paleo Diet. And I have a feeling you're going to love this.
[00:24:51] Okay, and I haven't sprung this on you yet. I actually had an epiphany yesterday when I did my interview with Tammy nestling. [00:25:00] And the Epiphany was like, you know, when you see you see something you see it again. You see it again. You see it again. You don't even think about it. Then all of a sudden you see it this one time and all those dots connecting you go.
[00:25:13] Wait a minute. There's something there. Oh, yeah. Okay. So let me back up when I got in the best shape of my life when I was the leanest. I was probably at 10% and I if I would have stuck with it, I would have gotten into single digits. Did you body fat when I turned 50 I was eating multiple small meals a day.
[00:25:36] Yeah, okay. I gave that up once I started doing it to MIT and fasting in 2008. I was like, oh no fast fast, you know and eat a couple big meals and I even took it to extremes I've talked about it on the show. I used to do 24 48 and 72 hour fast and pump myself full of G8 rp6 growth hormone and then have like a five thousand calorie meal because I [00:26:00] thought well, this is how if we were starving.
[00:26:02] Like when we finally did get an antelope, we're going to sit there and eat it until we couldn't eat anymore, right? Okay, so and Rob wolf warned me. He said Carl you're playing with strong medicine right now. You need to be careful. But of course me being the douche that I am, you know, I don't pay attention.
[00:26:19] I'm right. I'm superhuman. But but really I did that for a while. So I was talking to. Guy at the gym that I know he's 58 years old guy is ripped to shreds. He's shorter than me. He's probably like five eight ripped to shreds completely vascular completely muscular great guy. I know he's on HRT. So we start talking he tells me, you know, I eat seven times a day.
[00:26:45] I've been doing this for a decade now. Okay. I didn't think anything of it. I'm thinking to myself. You're a sap. Why you doing that for my friend Brian who runs the car max here in Louisville decided he wants to do a competition. He has been [00:27:00] eating six and seven meals a day for the past three months.
[00:27:03] I saw him this morning. He's ripped. Tammy. Nesland is a 56 year old woman. Who went through menopause and didn't even get on HRT and she is in single-digit body fat now you and I both know how ridiculously hard that is for women. Yeah. Oh, yeah crazy. She eats seven meals a day. I think what's missing in the the keto discussion?
[00:27:28] Is instead of having that pound and a half of bacon and feeling like a fat waddle for the next six hours and go and see I don't have to eat because I'm not hungry. What if you cut the keto diet up and added small meal frequency scenario to it would people say because I because remember back in the day Jamie.
[00:27:48] Yeah when we were all on the bodybuilding forums. The idea of eating multiple meals a day did a couple things it manage blood sugar manage insulin. It kept your body in a Fed [00:28:00] state which was both a physiological and psychological effect where your body felt relaxed and comfortable because it knew it had another meal coming in two to three hours and that fed State actually allowed you to gain muscle at the same time while you lost body fat.
[00:28:15] This is what bodybuilders do all day long and I said to Eliza just this. I said how many ripped to shreds Kettle people. Do you know that you could see their veins and you could see I mean that they look like bodybuilders their skin is paper thin and she looked thought for a long time and she said maybe a couple I said The only person I know is Didi Gregory.
[00:28:36] He listens to the show. He's a friend of mine on Facebook. I mean he's ripped right but I think he does more of a high-protein keto and I think he follows a bodybuilding approach. I think he eats multiple times a day. In fact, I'm going to reach out to. After the show then I said to him. How many people eat a traditional bodybuilding diet whether it's chicken and rice and broccoli, but they eat six seven [00:29:00] times a day small meals.
[00:29:01] Do you know that a ripped to shreds and she started naming people and I was like I know and I said, you know what? I think the problem with keto is. That people load up in one meal. They eat two meals a day. They think oh, this is the greatest, you know that but really I got a feeling that people could get leaner on keto especially a high protein paleo keto like you promote if they started eating five six and seven meals a day and cut it up.
[00:29:26] Did I lose you? I think I lost them. Wow. What a terrible place to lose him at okay. I'm going to go ahead and run a commercial and we're going to disconnect and reconnect. With Jamie cup Rosso and I'll get his answer on the other side. Stay tuned. Welcome back, Jamie. Can you hear me? Yeah, I got you.
[00:29:44] Good good. Good. We like we had a bad internet connection and drop the audio on your side. Okay. So you heard everything I said, right? Yeah everything you said and I agree. I think there would be a huge advantage to that going back to that six small meals a day, but [00:30:00] maybe keep an Aikido ratio with a slight deficit.
[00:30:02] You know everybody else. I mean you can't argue that, you know bodybuilders. It's the sport they do that. They're not effective at it, you know, and if you're if you want to get into single digits, you know you we both know that that's taken it to a new level you may in fact may need to look outside the box a little bit and try that and think about it.
[00:30:23] It makes sense. If you know if my macros work out there I got to eat a two pound prime rib once a day. When it be easier and better for my body and more effective to break that up six times a day. Absolutely, and you know again it comes back to that whole discussion about what does the FED State phenomenon actually, do you know there's a we talk that you know, you know, it's funny.
[00:30:49] We are so into. The science du jour that we forget and we abandoned things that used to work just because what's new and novel is more [00:31:00] sexy and exciting but we know for decades now dating all the way back again to guys like Vince gironda that when you ate numerous small meals a day, it allowed you to lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time.
[00:31:13] That is the superfecta of physical change. That's it. Yeah, we used to say that all the time that your body wouldn't go into that starvation mode or whatever because it knew another meal was coming. And if and if that meal happens to be high fat high protein ultra low carb, your body is still going to build muscle, but it's probably going to burn fat.
[00:31:36] I agree II think there's a lot to that that bodybuilding philosophy on top of a keto / keto paleo style diet. So now you need to cook. You got it. You got to do easy keto one two, three four now and you got to add meal frequency to it. You got to add the discussion about having several. So because remember the keto diet is sold to people as.
[00:32:00] [00:32:00] Cruise the cruise control diet he won big sloppy greasy meal in the morning and you are not hungry for eight hours. He won big sloppy greasy meal than and you're not hungry until the next morning and and that is the antithesis of what we know actually makes you leaner. I mean we have we have basically we have an impromptu.
[00:32:28] Of 50 years of bodybuilding at people getting into into single digit body fat by eating multiple small meals a day. Yeah. Yeah, and you know what and that's a good point. So I wrote easy keto one two, three. Maybe I should write the next level for that. I take it to for performance athletes and people who want to get to that single digit body.
[00:32:52] I'm telling you. Just remember to comment about me on the in the always always that is pretty cool. That's a now. There's something that no one's [00:33:00] talking about it all nobody's talking about this right? You know it definitely so here's keto for Jane and Joe average at want to learn about the diet and drop their 50 pounds and get down to what be considered an average body weight.
[00:33:13] But what about the guys that like me who got into this because I like I wanted my athletic performance to really rise. Especially later in life. And that's and that's like I talked about that in the intro the book but the book doesn't go into that. So maybe that's maybe that's easy keto performance.
[00:33:30] One, two, three. Yeah easy keto for bodybuilding 1 2 3. I mean it's now, you know, I know there are bodybuilders out there who do keto? Yeah. Oh, yeah, but how are they doing it? You know, are they having multiple small meals a day but sticking to Quito macros. Yeah with a slight deficit. You may very well be the way they're doing.
[00:33:50] How do you figure out a caloric requirements for you yourself and people you work with do you just guess at it? Because their body size. Did you use a [00:34:00] bomb calorimeter or unit? Like the breezing unit? What do you do? I start with the Harris Benedict formula which has an age coefficient in it and you can and you can Google what that is.
[00:34:13] It takes height and weight and years old into into account. And then that's where we start and I always tell people that you know, you're not a spreadsheet this this is a art form and science here. And this is a place to start and then we mess with a little bit of a calorie deficit and then when you know, I have them keep a food log and we look at you know, what kind of food choices they're making some people can get away with keeping dairy in their keto diet.
[00:34:42] Some people can't. And and and we just go from there, but I you know, the bay I have an app that keto check app and there's a BMR in the back of it and which is a calculator for basal metabolic rate for I mean, most of your audience probably knows that but and that's why I start with [00:35:00] and then we go from there and see what's working.
[00:35:02] A lot of times. I find that it's not the diet. They have something else going on in their life stress or a bad gut. Or you know some time to candida overgrowth and or in fact maybe Dairy is really throwing them off the track, LOL 3 7 works for candida too, by the way. Okay. So let's talk about Dairy for a second.
[00:35:22] I can drink raw unpasteurized milk all day long and it doesn't bother me. Hmm. I have fallen in love with a a yogurt. It's a Greek style yogurt, but it's made by a company called grass milk. And if the whole thing is, it's grass fed. Milk blah blah blah, but it's pasteurized. Right and it has cream at the top like instead of the liquid at the top.
[00:35:45] It has thick yellow cream at the top and the cream is like I eat that first, but here's what I've discovered. I feel like it's curdling in my stomach because when I belch after it makes me Belch and when I [00:36:00] belch it tastes like sour milk is coming up it like curdled milk like. Not good. I'm coming to the conclusion that this yogurt doesn't work for me.
[00:36:09] So I'm not going to eat it anymore. Yeah. Yeah the very possible with that reaction that it doesn't right and so many people just ignore that they're like, but I love it. You know, I love it. Well, you may love it, but it doesn't love you. So that's a lot of things, you know over time, you know, there's there's all kinds of arguments on Dairy.
[00:36:30] But you can you can argue it with anything that you know what you know, the first 20 years of your life. It didn't bother you but hammered down over time 30 40 years all of a sudden you're on some type of medication and you don't want to change the way you eat instead of just taking a look at the you know, your menu and say Hey, you know, this may have been causing this let's let's try cutting this out or hey, you know now it's finally rearing its head.
[00:36:52] What's you know, maybe what's the problem here? You're going to ask yourself these questions. And just because [00:37:00] you've done it forever is an excuse to keep doing it. Right? I always whenever whenever people say to me, but I always used to be able to do it. I used to say I usually respond to me you used to poop in diapers too, but you don't want to do that anymore.
[00:37:13] Do you I mean, yeah, you know, the people say, oh I used to be able to eat whatever and then you know with the science. There's some of the science around now I'm saying well, yeah your insulin response over years and years and years of Pop-Tarts is. You know breaking down actually actually I have been doing a super deep dive on iron accumulation in the body and and iron accumulation leads to insulin resistance.
[00:37:37] Does it you know someone who's got that hemochromatosis? Well, I don't have hemochromatosis but from eating two and a half pounds of well. So for the past decade I've been eating at least a pound of beef every day. I stepped it up not too long ago out of convenience. I started eating two and a half pounds of ground beef because I can pick it up at Wendy's and I could just come to work and eat.
[00:37:59] I [00:38:00] started noticing some symptoms that I had a couple years ago actually like got so bad when I was eating all this meat, but I didn't make the connection yet. I was like looking elsewhere and so I was talking to Ron Penna one day and he said have you ever had your iron tested and so. I said no and I started to read and see it's not enough just to test ferritin right like that.
[00:38:24] All doctor with you say I'm worried about my on your doctor test ferritin ferritin is a protein the body produces that carries iron to tissue but ferritin can be elevated without iron being elevated. For instance. If you take large doses of Vitamin C. Your ferritin will go through the roof if you inject.
[00:38:43] Melanotan to or spend a lot of time in the sun. Your ferritin will go up. It will go through the roof. So there's lots of things that will raise ferritin but not iron you have to actually in order to do this, right? You have to test two things ferritin the protein that has been created to carry iron into [00:39:00] tissue and then the actual iron in your blood which is TI BC which is direct iron.
[00:39:07] I don't know what the metrics offer direct I am but it's supposed to be 240 or below. Most people are going to find that their way higher than that and and iron accumulation leads to insulin resistance and I look at myself. I'm like, I'm fairly lean right now. I'm fairly lean. I stay fairly lean and I and and and I am my blood sugar is spot-on, but recently it's starting to creep up and along with these other symptoms that I.
[00:39:33] And those symptoms are you so here's one of the things that happens. When you have you start to get to the point where iron is becoming too high gut microbes change your microbiome changes. You have stomach problems. Number one. Number two sleep impairment difficulty getting into deep sleep because iron is a is the most oxidative thing in your body.
[00:39:58] Iron causes the greatest [00:40:00] degree of oxidative stress to the body. Not only that but because it's iron it irritates everything close to it. So it irritates your nerves it irritates tissue. It makes your ears ring. I mean, it's when you when you start reading about what happens in Iron overload you go.
[00:40:17] Oh my God, that's old age. Oh, yeah, like everything that we think of happening in old age your muscles ache. Like if you wake up in the middle of the night and you have soreness in your muscles like you just ran a mile that's iron. I had I was having that happen. I was like what the hell is I'd even train my legs and it's like I flex my legs in the middle of the night and wakes me up.
[00:40:41] I'm like man, my legs are burning. Wow, interesting. So, you know all the things that we use attribute as oh you're getting old actually could be traced back to iron it definitely could be and you know, I've read some research when I was doing the heavy paleo thing about how that [00:41:00] we should donate blood way more often because as a species we were most commonly overrun with so many parasites that we were bleeding way more than we ever knew and then sometimes that iron was never an issue.
[00:41:14] I believe that I don't know. I also I'm trying to get an iron expert but there's really only one and he has retired. He's at the University of Indiana and Bloomington. He's written a couple good books on iron overload. But he's like 80 years old. He's like professor emeritus up there. I've emailed him a couple times never got a response back.
[00:41:31] I'm trying to find someone to come on the show that actually understands. All the science on iron because I am now if I had to stop because of my surgery but I've got three more visits and I've got to monitor my I've got to get my iron down. I've got to get it down and I predict if the getting it down, it'll take about a year and all these symptoms.
[00:41:52] I have I'm going to go away. I'm bet money on it. I'm betting money on. Have you how often do you donate blood? Well, believe it or not. [00:42:00] The bread crust will only take it once every two months. But when you're going for therapeutic phlebotomy, if you have been identified as having iron overload, they will take 500 mil milliliters every week for the first three weeks.
[00:42:13] Oh, wow. That's a lot. Yeah. I didn't want to do that. I want to go slow. I want to go slow with it. I don't want to become stupid and then go in the other direction haven't had become anemic, but I'm going to probably go if not this week next week for another draw. Yeah that definitely something to look into and you know what?
[00:42:29] I remember reading in one of dr. Eads as books about that. The problem had when you have a heart attack. Is when the iron comes rushing back into the system when they try to get your heart going again. Hmm. I don't know if you remember reading. I don't remember if it was in protein powder or if it was in protein power Life Plan.
[00:42:50] He actually talks about that iron being actual cause of the heart damage. So I'm reading I'm reading and that's interesting. I'm reading DD Gregory. I'm trying to find out but what's [00:43:00] your meal for how many times a day do you eat? I'm going to just ask him. I eat about Didi Gregory or maybe but what about you I eat about well, you know, it depends it depends on how I feel I eat three to four times a day.
[00:43:16] I think yeah, that's not too bad. I am going to go back to what I did. I'm going to get back to seven meals a day. I'll probably hit seven meals today. I'm just eating every two and a half hours. This smaller meals to I'm thinking about trying that now that we've brought it up in the interest of just getting leaner, maybe try and 12 weeks of.
[00:43:33] The old-fashioned six meals seven meals a day. Yeah, hitting my macros and keeping a slight deficit to see if I can't I'm not going to I'm not training for anything currently. So I'm it might be a good time to try that. Absolutely because if anything happens, it's strictly from the diet. Yeah, exactly.
[00:43:51] Yeah, he'd say I eat one, two, three meals a day plus one shake and two good-sized one shaken to God. He only needs three times a day so that [00:44:00] that that shoots a hole in my theory about him because he. The pictures he has on Facebook of himself. He's ripped. Well the shake would be a meal how many what did he say after that it shaken what and Tube two meals to good self.
[00:44:14] He's only getting three times a day and then he does it and then he does it 24-hour fast where he only eats one large dinner and that's it. Now. I'm telling you look. Different people respond differently, but one thing is for sure when you look at people who are shredded and you ask them. The about their meal frequency, they will tell you five meals a day six meals a day seven meals a day all the time.
[00:44:36] Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean that's fine. You talk to that competes point to someone, you know, that is a keto Guru that is shredded that you could see that you could see vasculature and graininess of muscle pointed. Tell me one. Yeah, there's I've only gotten close once I know I use that picture for today's show.
[00:44:56] You look amazing. Yeah, I was training. [00:45:00] So hard than the that, you know, I definitely was pushing through a major calorie deficit. Yeah. Yeah, and that's and that makes a big difference calorie deficit makes a big difference. Yeah. I want to take a last commercial break when we come back. I want to talk about measuring ketones.
[00:45:14] Is it still in Vogue? Is it even important? Where do you stand on it? Stay tuned. We're talking with Jamie cepero. So his book is easy keto one two, three. It's a short read. If you want to jump start your journey and try the keto diet. This is where you want to go don't get bogged down with lots of BS from people who can't even make it work for themselves by the way and read a book.
[00:45:39] That's a fast read that will get you started quickly. It's a great book. Amazon.com. Stay tuned. Welcome back to super human radio. My guest today is Jamie catharsis. He is the author of easy Kettle 1 2 3. He's also the guy they call keto daddy. Lots of people go to him because he's had great success with the keto diet and [00:46:00] he has gotten very lean with the keto diet.
[00:46:01] But as he said a second ago, he had to work really hard in the gym. Also. We you know, Jamie and I are having a discussion that you will not hear on any of the other quote unquote top keto podcasts or anything. It's because we don't have a vested interest. In keto per se. We're just in search of the truth and we have open minds and we're willing to discuss things that are outside the nine dots you don't hear anyone in the kettle Community talking about well, maybe we should be cutting our Kettle meals up into seven a day and see if that speeds up our metabolism, you know DD Gregory just commented to me and and I didn't respond.
[00:46:40] I just want him to listen to the show. But he said he used the lowest effective dose approach and he said doesn't it make sense to eat fewer meals instead of eating so many meals that you're boosting your metabolism up to 4,000 calories a day now think about that question in the flip [00:47:00] side. If your metabolism is looking for 4,000 calories a day and you're eating three you are not starving.
[00:47:08] You are satisfied all the time. Yeah, you have energy because when your metabolism is looking for 4,000 calories a day, you are energetic and engaged in life not slothful and sitting in a chair, but more importantly you have now become a calorie burning furnace. And if you are in ketosis where those calories going to come from?
[00:47:27] Yeah, exactly. So talk about ketosis for a second. Is it still important to monitor? Your Ketone levels are you think that people should just forget that and focus on the fasting and the macros? So I have a pretty strong philosophy on this and and it all depends, you know, a lot of times. I'll say that in my queue a section in the book starts with depends on what your goals are.
[00:47:54] And and when I when it comes to chasing ketones if you got a guy who comes to me and say he's [00:48:00] 300 pounds and you know, like we said before might have been living out of that Speedway gas station and he's like, I'm going to start doing this keto diet and maybe he's doing you know, one of the shades of.
[00:48:11] Say dirty keto and he's losing weight and he says to me I want to get I want to track my ketones and I look at him. I says you're 50 pounds lighter. You're healthier you're exercising and you're still losing weight. What do you care? Are you know because because the whole the whole chicken key telling thing is almost like, you know, it's like a competition who can pee father, you know, who can be further, you know, I can't see further than you, you know, and and that happens now on the flip side of that I get Sally Homemaker coming to me and she is not seeing any progress.
[00:48:47] And we were trying to figure out what may or may not be throwing her, you know, quote-unquote in and out of ketosis or you know, as her body out why it's not working right why it's not why I'm not into troubleshooting tool [00:49:00] or maybe you're doing it for epileptic reasons and it's another good tool.
[00:49:04] So because you're still having seizures, you don't know what well you yeah sure. Why you write what it what it is, so I'm a big fan. Of testing breath acetone with the key tonics for multiple reasons. One of the reasons being is that you know in a controlled lab environment testing beta-hydroxybutyrate at a blood level makes a lot of sense.
[00:49:26] It's a controlled meal. They know what these people are eating its regimented. There's doctors and everybody watching it. It's well-formulated. Out in the real world where someone wants to know. Am I actually metabolizing these fat or Ketone bodies, you know, the breath the acetone is actually a byproduct of burning it.
[00:49:47] So to me that's a better indicator of you know, am I in fact metabolizing or oxidizing fat? Where the blood ketones out in the real world can be tricked [00:50:00] in a way with you know, you see these shakes that people are taking or you know exoticness Ketone salts where they ingest a bunch of medium chain triglycerides consisting of maybe C8 and see 10 or whatever and soon as it hits the lever it turns into a ketone body and all of a sudden it comes up on their blood meter and like you said, they're chasing ketones and they think they're doing better when in fact.
[00:50:22] It's just overflowing into the blood and insulin is released. And then now, you know, it's beating it back down and you may in fact have just repeated the cycle, right but at about a fat level so that's you know, a long answer to a short question. It depends as you know, yeah, I know I think it I think your reasoning is very sound if you're losing weight and things are working for you.
[00:50:48] What do you care what your Ketone levels? What if it's not working for you the diet the proposed reason that you're doing the diet is to lose body fat, you're not the proposed reason to do the diet is to [00:51:00] control seizures. You're not having success. Then you need some tools to try to Define. What's going wrong here the first thing you want to look at as well.
[00:51:07] Let's see if you're really even producing ketones. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's see if I'm actually or you know, we brought up gut health a few times. Am I actually digesting and absorbing these nutrients and food? Maybe I have something blocking that you know, one of my really good friends has two as more better success with a processed protein because her body has such a hard time metabolizing, you know getting through her intestines, you know and same with nutrients are those vitamins getting there, too.
[00:51:40] To facilitate Krebs cycle, which is the energy cycle and a you know, mitochondrial level, right? Oh, there's a lot of questions. You got to ask it's not and I say this in my book and I've said a million times keto diet is not a silver bullet. There can be other things going on. So would like you said when it comes to time to test why am I not successful?
[00:51:59] I'm [00:52:00] following a well-formulated diet, you know, then it's time to look to those tools. I feel. Makes perfect sense and and the keto diet is not a mono therapy either. It's not. Oh I'm doing Kettle everything else is covered. If you're doing keto there's lots of other things to consider. If you're doing a strict keto we are eating a ridiculous amount of fat very very little protein and almost no carbohydrates.
[00:52:25] You are going to be nutrient deficient. You're going to be mineral deficient. It's important for you to get electrolytes. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that. The reason people suffer keto flu is because they they have electrolyte imbalances because the diet leaves them with these electrolyte imbalances.
[00:52:41] Yeah, and I agree with that too. So, you know and again coming from that paleo world again, you know people argue you get all your vitamins from from red meat. Well that may be true and that test might have been done in the 50s before we had feedlot Meats. You [00:53:00] know the game good points a little bit.
[00:53:01] The game has changed a little bit when they look up nutrient density of some of these fruit fruits and vegetables that was prior to the the factory farming that we have. Now where most of the stuff is just playing the role of food and I always argue. All right. So if you're arguing from the insulin response keto part of it, yeah Factory meets fine.
[00:53:23] Um, but if you're like you're saying cycling in and out of a keto diet may have some advantages because you're starting to get nutrient deficient or your gut starts to Suffer Well that may well very well be in fact that the few vegetables that you are getting are from the factory farms and and their shit, right, right.
[00:53:41] You know and this is some of these people listening are going to go, you know, this is a complicated podcast. There's guys are talking about gut health or talking about insulin resistance. They're talking about cycling in and out of this iron blah blah blah and there's a reason for that is because it is it's complicated the human body is biology and [00:54:00] it's and that's a problem because people want to know just what give me the one thing and it's not one thing and it'll never be one thing and that's the father never does.
[00:54:07] So the guy who did the fathead movie he. He have reviewed your book and gave you some Stellar Stellar reviews and responses on this, you know him personally. Yeah, I've met him a couple times on Jimmy's cruise and he is a great guy and he is very much like us in the fact that you know, he doesn't believe in like a silver bullet and there's a lot of things to consider and his hearts in the right place to when he did that Fathead movie.
[00:54:33] He was really. Trying to get the word out on the whole lipid hypothesis, right? And I think he did a very very very good job. Yeah, absolutely. You know TomTom is a great guy. If you haven't had them on the show, you probably should look to it hook us up hook us up introduce my well. I will definitely I mean maybe he's been on the show and I don't remember I've been doing this for 13 years.
[00:54:56] Now, you know, this is true and I'm not the youngest guy in the game either. So yeah, I [00:55:00] forget sometimes yeah, you have no idea how many times I've reached out to somebody and said, I'd love to have you on my show and they go I was on your show in 2008 and I feel like a schmuck. I'm like, oh, yeah.
[00:55:09] Oh, yeah now I remember. No, I don't. I don't remember. It's a lot of water under this bridge baby a lot of water. Yeah. Well you're doing a lot of good work. So anyway, we've opened a discussion to some new thoughts in the area of the keto diet and the biggest contribution to Today's Show is probably start to consider meal frequency and sought to emulate.
[00:55:31] Multiple meal frequency pattern like bodybuilders use if you if you desire to get lean. Yes pump that and Metabolism up get that metabolism to look for 4,000 calories a day, but just give a 2500 see what happens. Yeah, exactly. And then like I said for those out there that's like just head spinning at this point, you know, there is no easy answer but there's a place to start and you know every Thousand Mile Journey starts with the first step.
[00:55:55] Right right. Tell me real quick before we got go the key [00:56:00] tonics product. It's a little little device right goes on a keychain you just blow in it and it gives you a reading right away because that makes a lot of sense what you said exhaled is being utilized that makes a lot of sense. So so actually the ketonic says it's.
[00:56:12] Bit bigger than that. It comes with a battery pack now because the engineer who designed it Michelle on doll out of Sweden wanted a portable version that would sync with your phone. So he has a great Bluetooth version and I do have it linked that keto daddy.com. You guys can buy it there. Okay, and it will it's very simple.
[00:56:31] There's an easy to use app you it syncs with your phone you exhale into this device at a slow even pace so you don't you know, Make the sensor called is what it comes down to and it'll tell you how many parts per million acetone your breathing now, for those of you who already are testing beta-hydroxybutyrate at a blood level for the reasons.
[00:56:54] We mentioned early in this podcast. There is no correlation between what's actually [00:57:00] burning and what's actually hanging out in your blood. So don't try to find a pattern there. But yeah to actually show if you're metabolizing these ketones and acetone comes out. This unit will read in parts-per-million exactly how much you are metabolizing.
[00:57:15] It's a little tricky there's an art form to it. You don't blow into this thing like a saxophone. It's slow and steady and it's end of breath which so you blow for you blow you blow a little bit and then like halfway through your breath you put it. That's when you put it up to your mouth. Yeah, actually maybe even the dead tail and you know how your breathing normal and then you can always do a deep breath and then you can do a long exhale.
[00:57:41] I always kind of just exhale and then just give it that last little push in an almost will feel like remember when you're swimming underneath the water in a pool and you're trying to make it underneath the water for like two times back and also feel that slight Panic that's exactly where you should be exhaling at it's because the Ketone acetone hangs out in the bottom of your lungs [00:58:00] and a lot of people miss that I think in his description because of the language barrier, right?
[00:58:06] So for those of you listen to this, Two big things don't blow into the thing like you're a saxophone player and it's end of breath. Just give it a nice last push the last the very last thing and get that acetone up out of the bottom of your lungs and it'll give you a gauge the nice thing about it is opposed to the blood meters is you use it Time and Time and Time and Time and Time and Time Again not pay for strip.
[00:58:31] That's nice because all those other Ketone meters they like the Gillette razor company. They give you the razor blade the handle for cheap and then you got to buy those razor blades for the rest of your life. So yeah, exactly exactly. I'll see about getting you one you can play with it. Yeah, I would like that.
[00:58:47] I actually communicated Michelle many many many moons ago when before they actually introduced their. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I would like to try it for sure and there you go. So the website to go to is keto [00:59:00] daddy ke Tod add why.com. You can also get the book from there. You can order your key tonics breath tester if you want is some cool t-shirts to fueled by ketones really cool stuff and check it out.
[00:59:15] Thanks for being on the show today Jay. Alright, thanks a lot Carl. I appreciate it. Take care, and that's it for today's show. Tomorrow's Friday. I'm off. But Monday we have a couple we have some good shows coming next week. You're not gonna want to miss it. We're going to hit it out of the park.
[00:59:28] So stay tuned. We'll see you next week at thanks for listening today.
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